a small raise join me at trying.com i'm kevin lip ttac at the white house. >> and this is cnn just about 9:00 p.m. here in york de 13. and the trump hush money

criminal trial. now, history, including the former president of today facing the woman he denies how i mean, uh fair width and i was buying her silence and tonight's cooking his company books to cover it up. stormy daniels, who testified in great detail today so much of the defense move for a mistrial, which the judge, though displeased by some of it, did not grant meaning the defense got their first chance to cross-examine her this afternoon, managing and points to raise questions about her credibility, which in the end it'll be, up to the jury to decide there's going to be more cross examination on thursday. at one point, judge, merchan also ordered defense attorney todd blanche to speak to his client. i don't trump who he said was audibly cursing at points during stormy daniels testimony behavior, the judge called contemptuous as for daniel, she'll be back on the sam when the trial resumes thursday back in the panel right now, joining a cnn legal analysts, elie honig, normalizing who served as special counsel, the house democrats during the first trump impeachment is the author of trying trump, a guide to his first election interference, criminal trial. so you've been writing courtroom diaries. norm, what stood out to you? they were the biggest takeaways

from her testimony. >> stormy daniels is not a critical witness to the prosecution. unlike michael cohen, who's coming up, she's principally a corroboration witness to provide additional evidence because all of the witnesses we've seen how credibility issues i thought she was actually more effective on cross-examination just watching the jury under the pressure of questioning from defense counsel, her toughness and still came out. she pushed back on some of the aspersions that were cast upon her and she did provide corroboration about the 2000s, six sexual encounter they kicked off this whole case. then the critical 2016 a legend campaign, finance conspiracy and then its cover

up. and you need that conspiracy and the cover up she centered on the conspiracy she brought us back after a very dry documents de so you're saying she was better on cross-examination because she was more natural and sort authentic as opposed to her initial testimony, which was i mean, it was certainly rushed from what we heard from outside the court i felt that she was not as effective. >> it's unusual, but sometimes witnesses do perform better on cross. it was a challenge to her and her genuine persona came out if she's a writer, she writes scripts, she's a performer and i felt that the direct was a little bit too performative. she was more genuine on the cross. >> what do you what do you make the defense calling for mr. oil? >> well, eleia and i were chatting about this. there was no chance that they were going to get a miss trial. they wanted to make a point the

judge did agree with them that the testimony went too far, but i don't prompt cannot have been too happy about this. >> the judge pointed out that the defense had failed to object at certain points that he had too suh a spontaneous on his own object at one point, it did go too far. >> anderson, there were too many extraneous issues a reporter asked me, did she talk too much? i said the problem wasn't talking. it was a failure to listen. she was not hearing the questions and responding to the questions. she was going over that script, but i do think in the end of the day, just watching the jury in the afternoon the prosecution continued to advance its case. this today was more of three yards and a cloud of dust and both both sides got things that they wanted from today's examination. >> so it's interesting because i was doing our live coverage following along with our minute-by-minute updates from inside the courtroom. and i had the exact opposite impression.

now, you had the benefit of being in the courtroom i will defer to that, but we do also have to be careful when we play sort of amature psychologists to the jurors movements, though they were leaning forward, they were taking taking notes. okay. they could be taking notes because they think this is a great point, or they could be taking notes because they think this makes no sense. and i don't believe it so let's just all be cautious in reading into the jurors physicality my impression was she was plausible on her explanation of what happened in that hotel room. it's hard for me to believe that a juror heard that and thought this is entirely made up. there may well be some embellishments with arthur arthur, i think pointed out effectively in the last hour, but i think it's quite clear they had sex in 2006 and that hotel room but the cross exam boy, her responses were disastrous do you hate donald trump? yes. of course, she does that's a big deal. when the witness hates the person who's liberty is at stake. that's a big dam feel and she's putting out tweets, fantasizing about him being in jail that really

undermines the credibility the fact that she owes him $500,000, she by order of a court, owes donald trump a half million dollars and said, i will never pay him. >> i will defy a court order the defense is going to say she's willing to defy a court order, why she's not willing to respect an order of a judge, why she going to respect this oath. cheetos. so i thought it went quite poorly on cross exam at the end of direct, i thought. okay. they got what they needed, but but i think the process is making real inroads. >> can i ask you both about part of the cross that that has been a theme of the defense, which was this whole thing is just extortion. >> these are people who had a the way of extracting money from donald trump. and that's what they did with the threat of disclosing stuff. he didn't want disclose. how do you think that plays into this case? you go first, there. >> look, i thought that the importance of starting with pecker who makes clear that there is an agreement and he

was very persuasive and the rest of the case including put the documents half of the case two, the sayyed the cover up to the sayyed stormy didn't have anything to say about that. >> the rest of the case is all a follow-on to pecker establishing the contours of this campaign finance election interference, conspiracy. >> so if jeff if donald trump himself set up the arrangement that was later executed that robots the extortion point, and ellie, to your point it's not the note-taking that i found so telling on cross it was that they didn't take notes. they paid attention, they listened and she's showed her steal. what are you supposed to do? she did do that tweet she does hate donald trump i think juries, if you're honest with them, that is the one thing they want. you can. arthur has made a very good living off of

this principle. if you are honest with them, they will trust you. they will not lose credibility on that point. course. one confusing line of questioning where she didn't seem to have a solid timeline on why she signed the agreement where she shifted from saying that it was not out of a desire for money, it was out of fear that she signed this agreement. she said that she didn't want the story to get out, but then she said that she she just wanted the story to get out. and then she said and she assigned it because she figured was just easier to do this, to stay quiet, to let them buy are silence, i thought that was a little bit confusing given that is actually what gets to the heart of this, which is the catch and kill aspect of this. and the fact that she couldn't get out there with her story, what they've been leading up to what david pecker, karen mcdougal, now to stormy daniels, that was something that didn't go so a lot of clarity in the courtroom today i mean, the more i marinate on this testimony, maybe the strategy is in part to show frankly, with all due respect

how messy of a person stormy daniels is. >> and from donald trump's perspective, even his demeanor in the courtroom today the way that she really gaetz a rise out of him it makes it very easy to explain why he would think it is extremely important to keep this woman's story from coming out at the exact moment that she was threatening to tell the world she would have been a character that would have absorbed all of the energy in the campaign had she been out in that particular moment? for whatever it's worth the juries saw that today in for all its good parts and it's bad part. stormy daniels is who she is. and she's not a clean witness in the sense that she's not always telling a straight story. she's not always coming across as credible. maybe she's acting sometimes, maybe she's not there was definitely something that happened, but the degree to the nitty-gritty details you're not really sure how much of it is true. and all of that as part of the package.

and you can see why donald trump didn't want that to come out you've talked to well, i'm the former president has denied any kind of sexual liaison with stormy daniels. >> do most republicans, supporters there's believe him i it's hard after today, i think especially i think a lot of people said, well, she's coming forward because he's running for president and look at this, but there's all these instances of donald trump denying this. >> i mean, there are countless when he was in the white house in briefing rooms, and there's one where even after he was confronted by our border, he denied it use your major story on. >> we're not changing any stories. all i'm telling you is that this country is right right now running so smoke had to be bringing up that kind of crap and to be bring it up, which ons all the time that's all you want to talk about. you didn't you're going to see excuse me. >> but you have to excuse me. >> you take a look at what i said. you go back and take a look. you'll see what i said

to catherine. lucy's credit. she was the one who asked him the question on air force one where he's in the hallway and he denies know you've to ask michael cohen about that. i don't know anything about that. >> obviously we later learned that was a lie. >> he did know about it. >> i think the one thing that we haven't talked about enough today is his level of anger inside that courtroom. >> i mean, i have been watching trump as he was in there with keith davidson, the moments where he was closing his eyes and not really paying attention or trying to pretend like the testimony wasn't happening. he made no illusions of not listening. today, he was glued to that screen he had a scowl on his face the whole time when he walked in and out of the room, he was downright angry. the only time he didn't seem really furious was as he was exiting the courtroom at the end of the day after susan niclas had delivered a pretty brutal beginning of that cross-examination, but trump's anger and watching stormy daniels and the two of them being in the room for the first time and 17 years, they've not seen each each other since 2007. >> it was palpable even from where i was in the very, very

back corner of the room. >> you could see how angry he was the longer her testimony went on. >> and you can see how happy he was as you you just said, when he left the courtroom because when he came outside his statement today was you could see this case is falling apart because i forget. i think that every day no, no, he doesn't know. he says every day that i can't get a fair trial. the judges, it's not fair that jury's not fair, but today, because i think what caitlin just said, susan nechele came right out so this wasn't about money. you said that this wasn't about money. and of course it's about money. i think i think abby said, we're going to focus push it away from the sets and go about money, money, money this was all about money for you before stormy daniels testified, own a suck all the air out of the room, but before she testified, the jury heard from this publishing executive, and it was actually really interesting. the prosecutor had her read number of passages from two different books. one was how to be a billionaire. one of the quotes was this is a donald trump in this book, which was written, says, as i

said before, i always sign my checks so i know where my money is going in the same spirit, i also always tried to read my bills to make sure i'm not being overcharged another time and how to be a billionaire. he wrote, as i said before, oh well the same thing as i said, i always this is what the case is about this is the charge in the case which is that he made false business records. so i thought that was extremely incriminating. now, what i what i thought was hilarious and fascinating was his charles barkley defense. now, you may not understand that reference is the charles barkley the basketball player and broadcaster wrote an autobiography, even i know who charles. anderson, i always want to be careful and he claimed he wrote an autobiography and he claimed he was misquoted and his own autobiography the cross-examination, was effectively that is that will trump doesn't really write his own books. i think that's gonna be a tough sell for the jury,

and that that's not going to seal the case, but that meticulous attention to his own bookkeeping is something that is very important in this case goes right to the issues and i think is going to be a big problem and a mass yes. >> i thought sally franklin, that's her name. let's remember his salary franklin to me, the legal nerd in me. she was the star of the day. i mean that testimony about what donald trump himself wrote in his book is devastating. remember, last night we were talking about what does he know? does he know about the accounting is familiar with the invoices? >> she quoted him saying, you have to check out every invoice you have to know every paper clip to me that was a much certainly better witness for the prosecution. >> ultimately, less dynamic, but more important. i know it sounds ridiculous but it doubles down on what the jury heard yesterday from another person who knows trump's practices very well, who said the same thing trump would get

invoices and be like, don't pay this and go back but not one juror is going home today thinking about what sally franklin test by closing closing. >> that's gonna be up on hi, baby, but i'll just say right now, i'm like what the mistake on the prosecutors take it for the reality is all bad. >> i mean, if i thought about it, you're thinking about it as somebody's salary, franklin, remember, right? but the fact le that just it's trump like the quote from the book, right? >> make sure you're not getting overcharged let's look at the bill and make sure you sign and you're paying the right amount of money as you know, mr. prosecutor that's not enough to prove any element of this crime, correct? >> oh, it goes to a very important aspect once he asked is he was aware of the whole check scheme, the reimbursement scheme to michael cohen. it's on-point. okay. but it's not it's not recorded anyway, it's got afforded in his no, he's not signing the book. he doesn't have the book. this is just him signing a check. it's gotta go. where's this book that is being recorded? and

he's donald trump's signatures in the check on the check, he does not know. okay. i'll yslow burn down as a campaign expense or some other, you know? we don't know the book is donald trump saying this is my practice. this is how i run my business. i check every invoice. it's not him saying i checked them. michael cohen invoices that would be there was also a quote in one of the books about al unwise hilberg. now he's been there aside for 30 years. and how close they are and the book, another page of the book corroborated the story that we heard from geoff mcconney. >> you're fired because he did not feel he was monitoring trumps cash positions closely enough for me the most this is real legal nursery, but the most fascinating part of the examination of the publisher was the redirect, because the prosecutors laid a trap on cross blanch said, well, wait a minute, there was a

ghostwriter, there was a coauthor and then the prosecutors came back with all of the personal details of the acknowledgment co-writer was like a young mother who was quoted in there and and it just hammered, but also the co-writer wasn't like an established writer who would have just invented all this stuff. >> it was somebody who was like part of the system works at transfer. and sits outside his desk. so the idea that she is making up all these quotes seems highly unlikely. however, katelyn is totally right, not a single jaroun roman woman. >> she works for the trump organization. she's a staff. are there i think she's in her 70s now. >> she's the one who helped melania trump, right? >> her rnc speech in 2016, that plagiarized parts of michelle obama's speech. and she had to apologize and she took the blame for that just to bring this all full sort just living in 2016 at this moment but on thursday, stormy daniels is back how long? i mean, if you are the defense attorney, where

do you go? >> oh, wow you know what they've done before. >> okay. so this is how it works months ago, they take everything stormy daniels, he said everywhere and you put it i'm old school, so i just do it on paper, but they put it on excel spreadsheets. and it's by topic. what does she say about how she met trump? what did she say in the book? what did she say? and this is a guba, what did you say here is once you see there, so you have all those checklists and all these different topics. and then on this side it's like all these different interviews. and then look, you have to i'm in so memorized. so in your soul, when you're the lawyer standing up there that your reactant, you don't have times they are hold on them and madame witness, let me look at this. you have to be like, oh, really, that's what you're saying today. well, do you remember giving an interview to anderson cooper in 2018 when you said this? so which time when you're lying? do you like to these 12 jurors of july to anderson cooper, would you not to know what is the core lie that you want to establish? >> i mean, do you really want to establish that they didn't

have sex? i mean, what what is what see this is why i find her just want an entertaining witness, but i don't think he saw that important i agree with you. >> when you know who you're attacking without attacking them, the prosecutor, by the way, you can't trust them. this is the witness. this whole case is about stormy daniels. it stormy day. it never met. donald trump, none of those would be here. and they're the ones who put this whole case. we're only here because of this woman and you kept believe it because she told this slide that leyen, this line, this line that like & have you can't believe any of those lines that you got to walk him right out of this courtroom? >> elie, i mean, there's no question after thermo daniel's testimony today, there's no way down. trump has testified oh, gosh. i mean, there wasn't before they went from 0.020, 0.0. yeah. i mean there's just no reason for him to testify strategically. i don't think you will find a rational defense lawyer or prosecutor on the planet who would say he should testify. he doesn't need to. this is a reasonable doubt defense. arthur just articulated it quite well and quite passionately, i can't wait by the way to see mike what you want michael cohen night when but i mean,

basically the pitches they haven't proven their case and they're basing this on the word of two people, michael covenant, stormy daniels, who you cannot believe beyond a reasonable doubt to take the stand, would just be absolutely self-destructive. >> we've got to take a quick break next. now, we've got the full trial transcript. john berman's back with more of the standout moments from today and later, clarissa ward from jerusalem on israel's moved to take over the rough border crossing into gaza and where there's leaves ceasefire negotiations for both if you have graves disease gritty eyes could be more than a rough patch. >> people with graves could also get thyroid eye disease or tea ed, which may need a different doctor. find a ted is specialist at is-it ted.com how far would you go? >> is that the ambiance of your space? try the air wick way with air because central mis infused with natural essential oils di fill your mobile with immersive fragrance for up to 45 days. now that's a breath of

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imprint.com for certain more than lieberman at the pentagon and this before the break, arthur mentioned the degree to which the defense is focusing on the consistency of stormy daniels statements over time today, at least her accounts and her conversations with the former president about his daughter, ivanka, and possible opportunities beyond the apprentice do square substantially with the one she gave me in 2018 he's like, wow you are special. >> you remind me of my daughter you know, he's like you're smart, beautiful, and a woman to be reckoned with i'd like you i like you at this point, was he doing the apprentice? >> yes. >> and he goes got an idea, honey bunch.

>> would you ever consider going on and being a contestant& i laughed and said, nbc's never going to let in an adult film star beyond it's he goes, no, no, he goes that's why i want you you're going to shock a lot of people. >> you're smart and they won't know what to expect. >> did you think he was serious or did you think he was kind of dangling that? to get you to want to be involved with him. >> buff back with the panel & drum burman. >> he's got more from the trial transcript. what stands out. >> so we've had a chance now that we have the full transcript to go over the cross and put a little meat on the bones of what you've all been talking about here on how the defense really went after stormy daniels, right out of the gate on page three of the cross-examination. this is when susan necklace, the defense attorney, says the stormy daniels. am i correct that you hate president trump daniels? yes. necklace and you want him to go to jail, right? daniels. i want him to be held accountable. necklace, you want him to go to jail, am i correct daniel's if he's found guilty the absolutely niclas and you

tweeted in the past that quote, i won't walk all dance down the street when he selected to go to jail, correct? daniel's can you show me that's exactly what i said. that's not necklace then says, can we please pull up j to exhibit j2 only for the witness and the parties, please. the exhibit shown she looks at it. she goes a-ha in daniel's laughs. susan niclas did you just laugh? daniel says select it is in quotes because i'm quoting something that's someone else said because i knew you don't get selected to go to jail. niclas you just laughed about that, right? objection. from the prosecution. daniel says it's a typo. the judge says overruled. stormy daniels says that's why it's funny. you don't get selected to go to jail. daniel says it's not because you think this is a typo. it's not because you think it's funny at all. susan nicholas asks and then stormy daniels says, no absolutely not. so that you get a sense of how tense it was. obviously, you get the part about stormy

daniels hating are, but you also get the defense leaning in to the idea of the stormy daniels was laughing on the stand, you know, rare it is to ask a witness on cross-examination. you hate the defendant and the witnesses say yes, i do. i mean, it's better that she's honest about her bias, but this is overwhelming. what lawyer is called bias. she hates him. again, if i'm the prosecutor, i'd rather have her just come out and admit what's obvious but that's a big deal. >> the jury's allowed to take that into account and that is very stark testimony. i think we'll stick with the defense will ask michael cohen, do you hate all my goodness, i hate is not there great work. i mean, it's this entire livelihood, it's inspire. entire person makes a literacy more intern on what do you think killing through yesterday, just going to try to give him outcast this guys ever done every tiktok he's ever done. >> it is over the top. i've never seen anything like the level of personal hatred and bias and michael cohen will

have and michael cohen rhoad in entire book called ravana so you don't really have to look that hard. >> to find him. >> if he would cop to it so freely or we'll see, but i have no choice don't forget he's getting prepped and prepped and prepping. >> anderson, can we just touch about how sick it is? that stormy daniels said that here's donald trump hitting on her wants to have sex with her and he's like you remind me, my daughter that's weird stuff, man. >> saying it was because she's smart that pretty when she said when girl you don't say you remind me my daughter, that's nuts. >> to that 0.1 thing that stood out to me as someone who's covered trump's since even before it was in the white house watching him sitting there and having to listen to the way she talked about him. it wasn't just what she said and the salacious points. she was. so derisive, she was mocking him basically at several points. she was saying he was old enough to be my dad. he was older than my father. she was 27. he was 60. she was saying she didn't enjoy it. she didn't want to be there. you know, she's had all these

points where then in the cross-examination she was like, yeah, i do hate him and i do want to see i'm held accountable and she was not shying away from her past statements about him trump never has to sit there and listen to someone talk about him like that or talk to him like that? and describe him as arrogant and pompous. and today he had new toys. he was just sitting there speaking of what this trial has done to him, regardless of the outcome, seeing him sit there at that table and just have to kinda take it is remarkable. >> this is one of the things that he has always been the most sensitive about. stormy daniels allegation in particular, kaitlan gnosis actually really well because asking him about this at the white house would be like world war ii for the white house staff, they absolutely hated this line of questioning. and it really gets to, it reminds me of how he responded to the access hollywood tape. that's definitely him right on the audio tape, but he's still likes to deny it. and so when he's confronted with the worst parts of himself, he really

reacts very strongly and very negatively. and that's what this whole case is about however, i do think stormy daniels the way that she conveyed that trump is going to make the argument and i don't know what his lawyers are going to do, but he's already been making the case. this is a concocted case, too dirty him up before the election to make him seem bad in front of the american public, even though there's no like legally, illegal thing that happened here, that's his argument. i don't know that stormy daniels help the prosecutors in batting that down because she seemed to have a personal vendetta against him. it may be justified, but that's what it seemed like bases will the defense when they cross examined her, i mean, they attacked or motivations it's about talking about they tried many ways. >> one, there was the hate issue also the financial motivation and they lean into that. and the one hand you all mentioned before, stormy

daniels had said that she refused to pay trump the money that she owes him in the lawsuits. this is worse is a necklace. the di vet's 30 picks up. now, while you've been refusing to pay president trump the money you owe him, you've also been making money by claiming you had sex with president trump, right? daniel says, are you talking about the book? yes. niclas and you've been making money by claiming you had sex with donald trump for more than a decade, right? daniels? i have not been paid for interviews in the united states if that's what you mean, niclas well, that was not my question. my question was, you in making money by claiming to have had sex with president trump for more than a decade, right? daniels, i've been making money by telling my story about what happened to the necklace& that story in essence is that you say you had sex with president trump, right? daniels? yes. & that story has made you a lot of money, right? then daniel says, it is also cost me a lot of money. >> and that's that point about costing her a lot of money. and this is the thing i spent a lot of time talking to stormy about, which is because michael

avenatti filed this libel lawsuit against trump, that the judge in california said was frivolous he awarded attorney's fees to trump, which is assessed against the client, not the lawyer the amount he now she now owes him with interest and penalties is $670,000 she owes donald trump's $670,000 you can see why that makes someone really angry. >> and there does seem to be a measure of injustice because her lawyer, who is now in prison for other reasons, is responsible for her being in this gigantic debt, which is much more than the money she made out of this hole other reasons that he's in jail, avenatti, they're very similar that right? >> that's excuse in jail for extortion. that offense is theory here somehow is going to be have to do with extortion but getting he's also entail for stealing from stormy. >> that's sure. i mean, so the kayla's point about trump

having to sit there he did. i didn't explode, but he reacted in a way today that caused the judge to tell his lawyers you've been rain. this guy in because the judge does have the power. i mean, there's a confrontation clause which is ten amount in a trial. so the way the judge can put them in jail. the judge also can't throw them out of the courtroom. it's very hard if a witnesses testifying unless he just act so disruptively then they could put them in another room with a video tape because he's forfeited his right to be you think i did the defense mentioned the amount of money that she owes him to already. >> yeah. they asked her that was actually right when it began that she was going john as the transcript, but susan nechele is going line by line of what she owes donald trump and what she says that she's not she all violating the non-disclosure agreement for this. >> it's for four filing the moment there's no usually non-disclosure agreement chunk that even remember for there was a lawsuit, but also trips are all argument with void because he never been signed. >> it talks at length about what why she won't pay it back

and there was an implication that she could but she won't because she thinks it's unfair so they talked at length about this, is it isn't it true that you were hoping that if donald trump is convicted, you'll never have to pay him the more than half $1 million all or you owe him, it's out there. it was in this trial, even beyond that, both stormy daniels and michael cohen put even putting aside this judgment against stormy daniels. they do have direct financial interest here. if donald trump is convicted, they're going to vote sell more books, get more views, get more downloads, bianna tv more. if he's not convicted, what if this jerry i don't think it's at all likely they come back not guilty. it might hang, but if they come back not guilty, the bottom falls out on the michael cohen and stormy daniels market. so in addition to over admitted personal hatred, they have a financial motive as well, and that will be drilled drilled drilled about to harm and to him enter the jury at the end, they have millions of reasons to lie to you, ladies and gentlemen. the jury number many. thanks very much. appreciated it. obviously, the jury heard a lot from stormy daniels day, as well as anger from the judge

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like a pro pain-free absorb been pro i'm someone's are 40 in washington in this is cnn wanted want to discuss more about what the jury saw today, especially from judge juan merchan. >> juries often take cues from judges and today this jury sallet, judge, particularly the early session, visibly frustrated with prosecutors and the witness from me, daniel her early testimony included details about sexual positions, whether the form president used a condom and he didn't this judge later said there were some things, are better left unsaid. however, those details and other denials are things that daniel is talked about in a boost of of her claim of having sex in the form president. it's a claim he consistently denied and lies at the heart of the charges against him joining us is jury consultant alan turkheimer how do you think the jury responded to stormy daniels testimony? >> jurors sacrifice a lot. they

give up their time, their families their jobs, and it's difficult. they have to hear the information in a case they don't get to sit around and talk to people about it. it's stressful when i talked to them after vertex. the number one thing they usually tell me that earth's them about the process is that time was wasted or when something was inefficient, that really bothers them. and i think that looking at the testimony today, i think there was some extraneous testimony that she went into some of the details that you just highlighted, maybe a few jokes which i don't think should ever be made in court. and so i think that that bothered the jurors. now, they would tend to give her a free pass on like somebody like michael cohn who would do the same but i do think it bothered them. and if you think about it, the prosecution and it's opening statement had some pretty stark language. they've talked about a conspiracy cover up scheming, that kind of thing. and so they really want to elevate and have jurors think that this is serious stuff. so anytime there's a moment of fireball in the courtroom or if that goes on for awhile, i think that hurts the prosecution helps a defense. >> there was reporting that

certain daniel's was addressing the jury and maids one of jokes and they didn't seem to respond and people in the courtroom said didn't kaitlan, you talk about this, that it didn't seem to land well with the jurors because it was such a tenth environment in such a serious subject that she was talking about out yeah. >> i just i don't think there's really any circumstance one you mentioned earlier, if something isn't planned and there's a little humor, yes, it's a good time to release jurors can laugh at that, but any kind of planned humor is just a courtroom is not the place for that. and i think they probably picked up on that. and if they may be smiled or looked at each other, whatever happened, i don't think that they appreciated that went on cross examination when she was asked if she hated don trump and she said, yes di jurors appreciate that honesty? you think more or do they suddenly now question her motives? >> i think some of them i think a little bit of bove i think they probably appreciate it, but also thought, well, what is her reason for testing? find? what does she here for? and i know there was the discussion earlier about cross and direct. maybe she was more credible. i think norman, you were talking about this. i think to me the

big thing is that if your demeanor changes from direct across the jury's not going to think that you're that credible. they're good question how truthful you are, how believable you aren't, how likable you are. so whether or not whatever she said during during the cross that maybe she didn't touch on during the direct if the demeanor changes and it's a different person that's going to hurt her credibility currently. >> she was a times talking directly to the jury. >> do you have a view some witnesses and answering questions? answer to the jury and others answered to the lawyer do you think one of those is the correct approach? >> i think being natural is the best. so i like it when a client if somebody says, could you explain to the jury then you look at the jury. i think it's unnatural and jurors get a little weirded out by it. if the leuser witness are talking, and then every time there's an answer, they pivot and look at the jerry. i don't think that's natural. i think it's good to try to at least elicit and prompt them to look at the jury so that the jury feels like we're having a conversation. >> i asked your opinion about having to lawyers on the jury yes. so it was not inadvertent.

certainly.& it's very interesting. this is a white-collar type of logical, accomplished jury their sales people that jury that i can tell you. >> yes. maybe not that atypical for new york county, but the the lawyers are going to have probably undue influence. it's interesting that there are two. now, i don't know. they didn't run out of strikes because they were chosen in the first seven. so maybe one side thought the other would burn a strike on a leuser or the other? either way though, i think maybe the thinking as these lawyers are going to strictly adhere to the law council, the trump attorneys regarding the lawyers, would you have told them to strike them? what would you say? i think this case it's okay to keep them i think it's okay. i think that a lot of times lawyers, they've been they've seen situations where ethics maybe were questioned and maybe some shady things going on and they can distinguish that between illegality and maybe that's the whole thing not going to get bamboozled by some of the salacious details of what's going on in this case. so it's always risky and it's

interesting that there's not only one, but two lawyers on just jerry for sure nicholas, the trump attorney at one point during her cross-examination said to stormy daniels, you aggressively rehearsed for this. the prosecution didn't you? and stormy daniels push back on the characterization. she said she did go over her testimony with them. i wonder though how the jury here is that people who may not know what, how prosecutors do work with the witnesses that they call up, what they're gonna say. >> i think most jurors know that witnesses do prepare& in a way it shows that they're taking it seriously and i know they didn't get into that. so i don't think that was too much of a surprise, but most jurors do make that inference that if you're going to get up and testify case like this, you're certainly going to prepare for it and rehearses a word. maybe she wanted to use that, wouldn't be the word that stormy daniels is a nicholas tax. yeah. i've. heard judges say when that line of cross-examination comes up, judges just interject. there is nothing improper objection. >> i didn't ask it. nobody asked you to say that, judge. >> well, no. if no one has no one asked you that, there's no

question. >> object to the judge judge. >> i'm not really doing judge. >> judges. i think i had no idea what he's talking you answer my question i'm not sure i was the one thing was your question, but the one thing i think in terms of that, that's related to that i think my whole picks said that she was nervous. that's something that i think is in your pr that i'm sure where that's some of the jury can relate to. so when that's elicited jurors got appreciate that, that brings them down to earth a little bit and it's true that someone like her she's not used to testifying, but there's a fine line between that and saying are you rehearse with this and you're basically the implication is your attorneys either told you what to say are you know what to say and they told you how to say it. will often the first thing i say if it's not my witnesses cross-examination, they miss miss daniels. this is the first time i've ever spoken correct? correct. that's not true with the prosecutor, correct? correct. could you tell me approximately how many times have you met with them? what dates and what was the first time you met with the second time and the best part is if they like well, i don't know. so you met with them so many

times that you don't even remember how do you as defense have a right to meet with them and to talk to them about their testimony which the trump team hasn't done with all the witnesses there, but they usually kaitlan usually hey sorry. >> no, they usually. say, why would it defend, why would the defense counsel not want to meet with other witnesses would definitely wants you say no, but you say no, i'm not going to meet with you. i'm not going to talk to you. >> the lawyer doesn't reach out themselves. >> what if there's a breach? the leuser that there's no way for that to really get i've never i don't recall a prosecutor saying, well, did mr. i. ever tried to talk to you? >> yeah. i'm asking if todd, blanche and trump's other attorneys have the right to reach out to some of these these witnesses that we've seen to talk to them about what they're going to say on the stand and they didn't do that why would they not have done that well, i don't i don't can't answer that question, but usually i would ask my investigator, hey, pick up the phone and so you've stormy daniel will talk to us one out of 100 times you think it's a good idea as what well? absolutely. if you can, if

they're willing to talk to you, but they usually don't. but about the nervous thing when i put a witness on the stand, i would say, are you nervous right now? they'll see i see, you know what? so my a little bit, but we'll get through this together i keep coming back to what you were saying about the jury and all the anchor that went into constituting this jury in the first place, they understand the stakes at this case. >> and i think a lot of them probably understand how their lives are probably going to change after all of this when when stormy daniels inserts this implication that there is there are vendettas at play here. her's maybe michael cohen's later how does the jury react to that when they know that there is maybe they're not following the news, but the president of the united states, the guy who used to be president is sitting right there they know that there's a political implication, right? >> i think because of who these jurors are, and they've lived here for they've known trump for 40 years and so i don't think that there are shocked by that the conscience of the jury

is not shocked when they hear that information it's something that if they here once or twice they might they go, wow, that's interesting, and they want to know how it relates to the case. but two, i just don't think it's that big of a powerful point that they're trying to make. i do think the jurors are wondering how everything's going to connect to the verdict questions if they're supposed to answer. and that'll be really interesting. i haven't seen that those actual questions i want to know what they are because, you might have jury that is prone to convector, they think they will product they side with the prosecution. they read the law verdict form and they don't want or the other way around, they sayyed with defense and they read the questions and think, maybe this means that we should convex. so that'll be really interesting for gunner. thank you so much. are we good? i didn't everybody in the panel. thank you. appreciate it. ahead. how prison and biden today, condemned a surge of anti-semitism in the, since the october 7 of mass attack, that and a report from israel in the state of the war. and it's inspired toxics so greek doug mimo, someone needs to customize and safe hundreds and car insurance with liberty

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ceremony today, president biden irs, the world not to forget what happened in israel on october 7. he also reiterated his quote, ironclad commitment, israel it's right to exist. meantime, the idf, today's sees the palestinian sayyed the raffa border crossing of vital entry point for eyvind to gaza. that is uncertainty remains over ceasefire proposal it's all the hamas claims to have accepted and its course awards and jerusalem, the latest course or what gaps remain between what hamas agreed to yesterday or say they agreed to yesterday and what israel is willing to accept so anderson, there seemed to be two key areas of disagreement here. the primary one relates to the 33 hostages who would be released as a part of this deal that was supposed to include women, females the elderly, and the sick. but hamas are saying that in the agreement that they signed onto essentially that some of those 33 could be dead bodies if they're not able to

locate those hostages. it's alive and the israelis have said that that is completely impossible for them. so that's the key area than another issue is this issue you of whether israeli forces would pull out of the gaza strip entirely hamas has said again, in the proposed agreement that they signed onto that it would entail israel completely pulling out as forces. israel has said, there is no possibility of that happening. now, while it sounds like there's a lot of daylight between the two sides, us officials have said and we heard from white house spokesperson jonny kirby today that he believes the gaps can be closed. we know there has been a flurry of diplomatic activity, talks ongoing in cairo today cia bill burns, who was in cairo, will be flying to israel tomorrow. so to meet with his counterpart, david barney at masada, also to meet with the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu so even though there is still some real

distance on the these core issues, there is a huge amount of diplomatic pressure and efforts going on to try to get the two sides to come together and lasting deal. andrew serwer, the latest about what what's happening. rafah well, there have been airstrikes today. >> we know according to health officials on the ground now that at least 27 people were killed, including six women and nine children, the idf also reporting nearly 20 rockets were fired from that rafah area. the israelis are now full control of that raw four raffa border crossing area, which means that that border crossing is closed. kerem show kilohm is also closed. and so you're hearing a lot of concern from aid organizations who say that in less that aid is able to get in unless those trucks with fuel, with food, with medicine are able to get in that you're going to be looking at it dramatically worse humanitarian situation, there has been a huge flight of people. some

100,000 who are already on on the move according to the head of unrwa, some 200 people moving every single our hospitals in the eastern part of gaza. some of them been forced to close among them. abu use of al-najjar hospital. that is a hospital that treats people with dialysis who have kidney issues. so again, very feel fears that what israel is describing as a sort of surgical precision anti terror, offensive could turn into something broader. and that this will have a devastating impact on the already dire humanitarian situation in gaza. anderson cursor award. thanks so much the news continues right here on cnn you know, i spent a lot of time thinking about dirt at three in the morning and you what people don't know is that not all der the same? you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new organic soil from the miracle grow,

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your business easily with freelancers five i beat mundane reagan national airport this cnn closed captioning is brought to you by you, cora, help maintain a healthy urinary tract with you, cora having utis for ten years. you cora, we make uti really products we also make proactive urinary tract health products. you cora, is a life stage right today at your core i'd write next breaking news, stormy daniels stairs down from the most explosive day of testimony yet, i was ico