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here in new york day 13. and the trump hush money criminal trial. now history, including the former president today facing the woman he denies having an a fair width and is buying her silence and tonight looking it's company books to cover it up. stormy daniels who testified in great detail today, so much of the defense move for a mistrial, which the judge, though displeased by some of it, did not grant, meaning the defense got their first chance to cross-examine her this afternoon managing and points to raise questions about her credibility, which in the end will be up to the jury to decide there's going to be more cross examination on thursday at one point, judge merchan also ordered defense attorney todd blanche to speak to his client, donald trump, who he said was audibly cursing at points during stormy daniels testimony behavior, the judge called contemptuous. as for daniel, she'll be back on the stand when the trial resumes thursday back with the panel right now, joining us cnn, legal analysts elie honig and norm eisen, who served as special counsel, the house democrats during the first trump impeachment and is the author of trying trump a guide to his first election interference criminal trial. so you've been writing courtroom

diaries. norm, what stood out to you today were the biggest takeaways from her testimony stormy daniels is not a critical witness to the prosecution. unlike michael cohen, who's coming up, she's principally a corroboration witness to provide additional evidence because all of the witnesses we've seen have credibility issues. i thought she was actually more effective on cross-examination, just watching the jury under the pressure of questioning from a defense counsel, her toughness and still came out. she pushed back on some of the aspersions that were cast upon her and she did provide corroboration about the 2006 sexual encounter, then kicked off this whole case, then the critical 2016, a legend campaign finance

conspiracy. and then its cover up and you need that conspiracy and the cover up she centered on the conspiracy she brought us back after a very dry documents de so you're saying she was better on cross-examination because she was more natural and authentic as opposed to her initial don't testimony, which was i mean, it was certainly rushed from what we heard from outside the court. >> i felt that she was not as effective. it's unusual, but sometimes witnesses do perform better on cross. it was a challenge to her and her genuine persona came out she's a writer. she writes scripts, she's a performer and i felt that the direct was a little bit to performative. she was more genuine on the cross. >> what do you make the defense calling for mr. all well, we eleia and were chatting about this. >> there was no chance hence

that they weren't going to get a mistrial. they wanted to make a point the judge did agree with them that the testimony went too far, but i don't trump cannot have been too happy about this. the judge pointed out that the defense had failed to object at certain points that he had to suh a spontaneous on his own object at one point, it did go too far. anderson, there were too many extraneous issues a reporter asked me, did she talk too much? i said the problem wasn't talking. it was a failure to listen. she was not hearing the questions and responding to the questions she was going over that script, but i do think in the end of the day, just watching the jury in the afternoon the prosecution continued to advance its case. this today was more of three yards and a cloud of dust. and both, both sides got things that they wanted from today's examination. >> so it's interesting because it was doing our live coverage following along with our minute by updates from inside the

courtroom. and i had the exact opposite impression. now, you had the benefit of being in the courtroom, so i will defer to that, but we do also have to be careful when we play sort of amateur psychologists to the jurors movements, though they were leaning forward, they're taking taking notes. okay. they could be taking notes because they think this is a great point, or they could be taking notes because they think this makes no sense. and i don't believe it. so let's just all be cautious in reading into the jurors physicality my impression was she was plausible on her explanation of what happened in that hotel room. it's hard for me to believe that a juror heard that and thought this is entirely made up. there may well be some embellishments with arthur. arthur, i think pointed out effectively in the last hour. but i think it's quite clear they had sex in 2006 in that hotel room. but the cross exam boy, her responses were disastrous i mean, do you hate donald trump? yes. of course, she does. that's a big deal. when the witness hates the person who's liberty is at stake. that's a big dam feel and she's putting out tweets fantasizing about him being in

jail. that really undermines the credibility the fact that she owes him $500,000, she by order a core owes donald trump a half million dollars instead, i will never pay him. i will defy a court order. the defense is going to say she's willing to defy a court order, why she's not willing to respect an order of a judge, why she going to respect this oath she took. so i thought it went quite poorly on cross exam at the end of direct, i thought. okay. they got what they needed, but but i think the cross is making real i ask you both about part of the cross that that has been a theme of the defense, which was this whole thing is just extortion. these are people who had a way of extracting money from donald trump. and that's what they did with the threat of disclosure zinc stuff. he didn't want disclosed. how do you think that plays into this case? you go first look i thought that the importance of starting with pecker who makes

clear that there is an agreement and he was very persuasive and the rest of the case, including put the documents half of the case two, the sayyed the cover up to the side, stormy didn't have anything to say about that. >> the rest of the case is all a follow-on to pecker establishing the contours of this campaign finance election interference conspiracy. so jeff, if donald trump himself set up the arrangement that was later executed, that rabbits the extortion point and let your point, it's not the note-taking that i found so telling on cross it was that they didn't take notes. they paid attention, they listened and she's showed her still. what are you supposed to do? she did do that tweet. she does hate donald trump. i think juries, if you're honest with them, that is the one thing they want. you can. arthur has

made a very pretty good living off of this principle. if you are honest with them, they will trust you. they will leave not lose credibility on that point. there was one confusing line of questioning where she didn't seem to have a solid timeline on why she signed the agreement where she shifted from saying that it was not out of a desire for money, it was out of fear that she signed this agreement. >> she said that she didn't want the story to get out, but then she said that she she just wanted the story to get out. and then she said she assigned it because she figured it was just easier to do this, to stay quiet, to let them by her silence. i thought that was a little bit confusing given that is actually what gets to the heart of this, which is the catch and kill aspect of this the fact that she couldn't get out there with her story, what they've been leading up to, what david pecker, karen mcdougal, now to stormy daniels, that was something that didn't get a lot of clarity in the courtroom today i mean, the more i marinate on this test maybe the strategy is in part to show frankly, with

all due respect how mesto of a person, stormy daniels is and from donald trump's perspective, even his demeanor in the courtroom today, the way that she really gets a rise out of him it makes it very easy to explain why he would think, it is extremely important to keep this woman's story from coming out at the exact moment that she was threatening to tell the world. >> she would have been a character that would have absorbed all of the energy in the campaign had she been outfront in that particular moment? >> for whatever it's worth, the juries saw that today in for all its good parts and it's bad part. >> stormy daniels is who she is and she's not a clean witness in the sense that she's not always telling a straight story. she's not always coming across as credible. maybe she's acting sometimes, maybe she's not. there was definitely something that happened, but the degree to the nitty-gritty details you're not really sure how much of it is

true. and all of that as part of the package. and you can see why donald trump didn't want that to come out you've talked to well, i'm the former president has denied any kind of sexual liaison with stormy daniels. >> do most republicans supported there's and others believe him i it's hard after today, i think especially i think a lot of people said, well, she's coming forward because he's running for president and look at this, but there's all these instances of donald trump denying this. >> i mean, there are countless when he was in the white house and briefing rhoad, and there's one where even after he was confronted by our border, he denied it we're not changing any stories. all i'm telling you is that this country is right now running sos mode and to be bringing up that kind of crap and debris, bring it up, which ons all the time that's all you want to talk about. you didn't you're going to see you excuse me, not enough, but you have to excuse

me. you take a look at what i said. you go back and take a look. you'll see what i said. >> to catherine. lucy's credit. she was the one who asked him the question on air force one where he's in the hallway and he denies know you've to ask michael cohen about that. i don't know anything about that. obviously, we later learned that was a lie. he did know about it. >> i think the one thing that we haven't talked about enough today is his level of anger inside that courtroom. >> i mean, i have been watching trump as he was in there with keith davidson, the moments where he was closing his eyes and not really paying attention or trying to pretend like the testimony wasn't happening. he made no illusions of not listening. today, he was glued to that screen. he had a scowl on his face the whole time when he walked in and out of the room, he was downright angry the only time he didn't seem really furious was as he was exiting the courtroom at the end of the day after susan niclas had delivered a pretty brutal beginning of that cross-examination, but trumps anger and watching stormy daniels and the two of them being in the room for the first time in 17 years, they have not seen each each other since

2007. it was palpable even from where i was in the very, very back corner of the room. you could see how angry he was the longer her testimony went on. >> and you can see how happy he was as you just said, when he left the courtroom, because when he came outside his statement today was you could see this case is falling apart because i forget. i think that every day no, no, he doesn't know. he says every day that i can't get a fair trial. the judges, it's not fair. the jury's not fair. but today, because i think when caitlin just said susan niclas came right out and said this wasn't about money. you said that this wasn't about money and of course it's about money. i think i think abby said, we're going to focus push it away from the sets and go about money, money, money. this was all about money for you before stormy daniels testified. i don't want to suck all the air out of the room, but before she testified, the jury heard from this publishing executive, and it was actually really interesting. the prosecutor had her read a number of passages from two different books. one was how to be a billionaire. one of the quotes was this is a donald trump in this book,

which was written, says, as i said before, i always sayyed my checks, so i know where my money is going in the same spirit. i also always try to read my bills to make sure i'm not being overcharged another time and how to be a billionaire. he wrote, as i said before, owe same thing as i said, i always i'm my tax. >> this is what the case is about this is the charge in the case which is that he made false business records. so i thought that was extremely incriminating. now, what i what i thought was hilarious and fascinating was his charles barkley defense. now, you may not understand that reference is the charles barkley the basketball player and broadcaster rhoad, an autobiography even i know who charles, anderson, i always want to be careful issues. and he claimed he wrote an autobiography and he claimed he was misquoted and his own autobiography, the cross-examination, was effectively that is that will trump doesn't really really write his own books. i think

that's going to be a tough sell for the jury, and that i mean, that's not going to seal the case, but that meticulous attention to his own bookkeeping is something that is very important in this case goes right to the issues and and i think is going to be a big problem. >> and a manner that yesterday i thought sally franklin, that's her name. let's remember sally franklin to me, the legal nerd in me. she was the star of the day. i mean, that testimony about what donald trump himself wrote in his book is devastating. remember, last night we were talking about what does he know? does he know about the accounting? is he familiar with the invoices? >> she quoted him saying, you have to check out every invoice you have to know every paper clip to me that was a much certainly better witness for the prosecution. >> ultimately less dynamic, but more important. i know it sounds ridiculous. but it doubles down on what the jury heard yesterday from another the person who knows trump's

practices very well, who said the same thing trump would get invoices and be like, don't pay this and go back. >> but not one. jaroun is going home today thinking about what sally franklin test by closing closing. that's gonna be up on the baby, but i'll just say right now, i'm like what the there's a mistake on the prosecutors. >> take it for the reality. >> is all bad i mean, if i thought about it, you're thinking about somebody's salary for remember her name, right? but the fact delhi that just it's trump like the quote from the book, right? make sure you're not getting overcharged. look at the bill and make sure you sign and you're paying the right amount of money. as you know, mr. prosecutor, that's not enough to prove any element of this crime, correct? >> oh, it goes to a very important aspect once the asymptote he was aware of the whole check scheme, the reimbursement scheme to michael cohen. it's on-point, but it's not it's not recorded anyway, it's got afforded in his book no, he's not signing the book. he doesn't have the book. this is just jim signing a check. it's gotta go.

where's this book that is being recorded? and he's donald trump signatures in the check on the check, he does not know. okay. i'll yslow burn put it down as a campaign expense or some other, you know, expense. >> we don't know the book, is donald trump? >> this is my practice. this is how i run my business. i check every invoice. it's not him saying i checked them. michael cohen invoices that would be there was also a quote in one of the books about alan weisberg and how he's been there by aside for 30 years and how close they are and the book, another page of the book corroborated the story that we heard from geoff mcconney. >> you're fired because he did not feel he was monitoring trumps cash positions closely enough for me the most this is real legal nursery but the most fascinating part of the examination of the publisher was the redirect, because the problem hi scooters later trap on cross blanch said, well,

wait a minute, there was a ghostwriter, there was a coauthor, and then the prosecutors came back with all of the personal details of the acknowledged the co-writer was like a young mother who was quoted in there and it just hammered, but also the core right. are wasn't like an established writer who would have just invented all this stuff. it was somebody who was like, part of the system works at trusts organization and sits outside his desk. so the idea that she is making up all these quotes seems highly unlikely. however, katelyn is totally right, but not a single juror remembers what morning woman she works for the trump organization. she's a staff. are there i think she's in her 70s now. >> she's the one who helped melania trump, right? >> her rnc speech in 2016, that plagiarized parts of michelle obama's speech. and she had to apologize and she took the blame for that just to bring this all full circle living in 2016 at this moment, but so on so 30 good day, stormy daniels is back.

>> how long? >> i mean, if you are the defense attorney, where do you go? >> oh, wow what they've done before. >> okay. so this is how it works months ago, they take everything store again, those i said everywhere, and you put it. i'm old school, so i just do it on paper, but they put it on an spreadsheets and it's by topic. what did she say about how she met trump? what did she say in the book? what did she say? hands as a group or what did you say? here's what did she say there. so you have all those checklists and all these different topics. and then on this side it's like all these different interviews and then look, you have to have it so memorized. so in your soul, when you're the lawyer stand ending up there, that you're react to, you don't have times they are hold on them and madame, witness, let me look at this. you ought to be like, oh, really, that's what you're saying today. well, do you remember giving an interview to anderson cooper in 2018 when you said this? so which time you line your line to these 12 jurors of july to anderson cooper, would you got to know it? >> what is is the core lie that

you want to establish? i mean, do you really want to establish that they didn't have sex? i mean, what what is what see this is why i find her just want an entertaining witness, but i don't think he saw that important. i agree with you. when you know who you're attacking without attacking them, the prosecutor, by the way, you can't trust them. this is the width there's this whole case is about stormy daniels it stormy dams never met donald trump. none of those would be here. and they're the ones who put this whole case. we're only here because of this woman and you kept believe it because she told this slide that leyen this slide, this leyen, that. & if you kept believe any of those lies that you're going to walk him right out of this courtroom. >> elie i mean, there's no question after thermo daniel testimony today, there's no way down. trump has testified oh, gosh. >> i mean, there wasn't before they went from 0.020, 0.0. yeah. i mean there's just no reason for him to testify strategically. i don't think you will find a rational defense lawyer or prosecutor on the planet who would say he should testify. he doesn't need to. this is a reasonable doubt defense arthur just articulated it quite well and quite passionately, i can't

wait by the way to see mike what you want michael cohen night but i mean, basically the pitches they haven't proven their case and they're basing this on the word of two people, michael covenant, stormy daniels, who you cannot believe beyond a reasonable doubt to take the stand, would just be absolutely self-destructive. >> we've got to take a quick break next. now, we've got the full trial transcript. john berman's back with more of the standout moments from today and later award from jerusalem on israel's moved to take over the rocket border crossing into gaza and where there's leaves ceasefire negotiations for both sides. >> how far would you go to set the ambiance of your space? try the air wick way with airway essential miss infused with natural essential oils to fill your low bit with immersive fragrance for up to 45 days now that's a breath of fresh air there's a way to cut your dishwashing time by 50%. try don power, wash, dish spray. it removes 99% of greece and ghraieb in half the time it

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a small raise, join me at trying.com this is cnn. the world's news before the break. >> arthur mentioned the degree to which the defense is focusing on the consistency of stormy daniels statements over time today, at least her accounts of her conversations with the former president about his daughter ivanka, and possible opportunities be on the apprentice do square substantially with the one she gave me in 2018 he's like, wow you you are special. >> you remind me of my daughter you know, he's like you're smart, beautiful, and a woman to be reckoned with. >> i'd like you, i like you at this point, was he doing the apprentice? >> yes.

>> and he got an idea, honey bunch. would you ever consider going on and being a contestant? and i laughed and said, nbc is never going to let you know an adult film star, beyond its, he goes, no, no, he goes that's why i want you you're going to shock a lot of people smart and they won't know what to expect. >> did you think he was serious or did you think he was kind of dangling that to get you to want to be involved with them, both back with the panel. john berman, who's got more from the trial transcript what stands out. >> so we've had a chance now that we have the full transcript to go over the cross and put a little meat on the bones of what you've all been talking you about here on how the defense really went after stormy daniels, right out of the gate on page three of the cross-examination. this is when susan nechele, defense attorney, says the stormy daniels. am i correct that you hate president trump? daniels? yes. necklace and you want him to go to jail, right daniels. i want him to be held accountable. niclas. you want him to go to jail? am i correct

daniel's if he's found guilty, absolutely. niclas and you tweeted in the past that quote, i won't walk all dance down the street when he selected to go to jail, correct? daniel's can you show and we that's exactly what i said. that's not necklace then says, can we please pull up j to exhibit j2 only for the witness and the parties, please. the exhibit shown she looks at it. she goes a-ha and daniels laughs. susan nechele says, did you just laugh? daniel says, select it is in quotes because i'm quoting something that someone else said because i knew you don't get selected to go to jail. niclas says you just laughed about that, right objection from the prosecution. daniel says it's a typo. the judge says overruled. stormy daniels says that's why it's funny. you don't get selected to go to jail. daniel says it's not because you think this is a typo. it's not because you think it's funny at all. so the necklace asks and then stormy daniels says, no. absolutely

not. so that you get a sense of how tense it was. obviously, you get the part about stormy daniels hating are, but you also get the defense leaning in to the idea of the stormy daniels was laughing on the stand, you're not a rare it is to ask a witness on cross-examination. >> you hate the defendant and the witnesses say yes, i do. i mean, it's better that she is honest about her bias, but this is overwhelming. what lawyers called bias. she hates tim. >> again, if i'm the prosecutor, i'd rather have her just come out and admit what's obvious. >> but that's a big deal. the jury is allowed to take that into account. >> and that is very stark testimony. >> i think we'll stick with the defense will ask michael cohen, do you hey, all my goodness, henao, not the right word. i mean, it's his entire livelihood, its entire entire person makes a letters for intern on what do you think you'll enter yesterday? it's going to try to give him michael cone embrace, yet, right? he's going to embrace this. i mean some poor intern on the defense team is probably listening to every podcast this guys ever done, every tiktok he's ever done. it is over the

top. i've never seen anything like the level of personal hatred and bias and michael oh, and we'll have and michael cohen wrote an entire book called ravana, right? so you don't really have to look that hard to find him. >> if he would cop to it. so freely or we'll see, but i have no choice i don't forget he's getting prepped and prepped and prepping. >> anderson, can we just touch about how sick it is? that stormy daniels said that here's donald trump hitting on wants to have sex with her and he's like you remind me, my daughter that's weird stuff. >> saying it was because she's smart, pretty. >> girl, you don't say you remind me my daughter, that's nuts to that point thing. that's so it out to me as someone who's covered trump's since even before it was in the white house watching him sitting there and having to listen to the way she talked about him. it wasn't just what she said and the salacious points. she was so derisive, she was mocking him basically at several points, she was saying he was old enough to be my dad. he was older than my father. she was 27. he was 60.

she was saying she didn't enjoy it she didn't want to be there. she's had all these points where then in the cross-examination she was like, yeah, i do hate him and i do want to see i'm held accountable and she was not shying away from her past statements about him. trump never has to sit there and listen to someone talk about him like that or talked to him like that and describe him as arrogant and pompous. >> and today he he had no toys. he was just sitting there speaking of what this trial has done to him, regardless of the outcome, seeing him sit there at that table and just have to kinda take it is remarkable. >> this is one of the things that he has always been the most sensitive about the stormy daniels allegation in particular, kaitlan gnosis actually really well because asking him about this at the white house would be like world war ii for the white house staff, they absolutely hated this line of questioning and it really gets to, it reminds me of how he responded to the access hollywood tape. that's definitely him. right on the audio tape, but he's still likes to deny it. and so when

he's confronted with the worst parts of himself, he really reacts very strongly and very negatively. and that's what this whole case is about. however, i do think stormy daniels the way that she conveyed that trump is going to make the argument and i don't know what his lawyers are going to do, but he's already been making the case. this is a concocted case, too dirty him up before the election to make him seem bad in front of the american public, even though there's no legally illegal thing that happened here, that's his argument. i don't know that stormy daniels help the prosecutors in batting that down because she seemed to have a personal vendetta against him. it may be justified, but that's what it seemed like bases will the defense when they cross examined her, i mean, they attacked or motivations about talking about they tried many ways. >> one, there was the hate issue, also the financial

motivation and they lean into that. and the one hand, you all mentioned before, stormy daniels had said that she refused to pay trump the money that she owes him and the lawsuits. this is worse is a necklace the di veterinary picks up. now, while you've been refusing to pay president trump the money oh, him, you've also been making money by claiming you had sex with president trump, right daniel says, are you talking about the book? yes. niclas, you've been making money by claiming you had sex with donald trump for more than a decade, right? daniels? i have not been paid for interviews in the united states if that's what you mean, necklace. well, that was not my question. my question was, you've been making you money by claiming to have had sex with president trump for more than a decade, right? daniels, i've been making money by telling my story about what happened to the niclas and that story in essence is that you say you had sex with president trump, right? daniels yes. and that's story has made you a lot of money, right? then daniel says, it has also cost me a lot of money and that's that point about costing her a lot of money. and this is the thing i spent a lot of time talking to stormy about, which

is because michael avenatti filed this libel lawsuit against trump that the judge in california said was frivolous he awarded attorney's fees to trump, which is assessed against the client, not the lawyer the amount he now she now owes him with interest and penalties is $670,000. she owes donald trump's $670,000 you can see why that makes someone really angry. >> and there does seem to be a measure of injustice because her lawyer, who is now in prison for other reasons, is responsible for her being in this gigantic debt, which is much more than the money she made out of this hole other reasons that he's and jail avenatti, they're very similar that right? >> that's excuse in jail for extortion. that offense is theory here somehow is going to be have to do with extortion but getting he's also entail for stealing from stormy.

>> yeah, that's true. i mean, the kayla's point about trump having to sit there he did. i didn't explode, but he reacted in a way today that caused the judge to tell us leuser been a rain this guy in because the judge does have the power. i mean, there's a confrontation clause which is ten amount in a trial. so the way the judge can put them in jail, the jeh johnson can't throw them out of the courtroom. it's very hard if a witness is testifying unless he just act so disruptively then made up could put them in another room with a video tape because he's forfeited his right to be i think i did. >> the defense mentioned the amount of money that she owes him to already. yeah. they asked her that was actually right when it began that she was going down as the transcript, but susan nechele is going line and by-line of what she owes donald trump and what she says that she's not she old, violating the non-disclosure agreement for this. >> it's for four filing the moment there's no usually a non-disclosure agreement. chunk that even remember there was a

lawsuit, but also checks are all argument with void because he never even signed the talks at length about but what why she won't pay it back. and there was an implication that she could, but she won't because she thinks it's unfair. so they talked at length about this is it isn't it true that you were hoping that if donald trump is convicted, you'll never have to pay him the more than half $1 million you owe him. it's out there. it was in this trial and even beyond that, both stormy daniels and michael cohen put even putting aside this judgment against stormy daniels. they do have direct financial interest here. if donald trump is convicted, they're going to vote sell more books, get more views, get more downloads, be on tv, more if he's not convicted, what if this jury, i don't think it's at all likely they come back not guilty. might hang, but if they come back not guilty, the bottom falls out on the mic. cool. colon and stormy daniels markets. in addition to over admitted personal hatred, they have a financial motive that as well and that will be drilled drilled drilled about too harm and to him enter the jury at the end, they have millions of reasons to lie to you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, some permanent thanks. >> very much. appreciated. it

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org i think monday night, reagan national airport. this is cnn wanted to wanted to discuss more about what the jury saw today, especially from judge, one more sean juries often take cues from judges and today this jerry salehi, judge, particularly, the early session, visibly frustrated with prosecutors and the witness, stormy daniels her early testimony included, details, but sexual positions, whether the form present used a condom and he didn't. >> this, judge later said there were some things, quote, better left unsaid however, those details and other denials are things that daniel is talked about in a boost, the credibility of her claim of having sex in the former president it's a claim he's consistently denied and leinz, the heart of the charges against him, joining us is jury consultant alan turkheimer how do you think the jury responded to stormy daniels testimony

jurors sacrifice a lot. >> they give up their time, their families there jobs, and it's difficult. they have to hear the information in a case they don't get to sit around and talk to people about it. it's stressful and when i talked to them after verdicts, the number one thing they usually tell me that earth's them about the process is that time was wasted or when something was inefficient, that really bothers them. and i think that looking at the testimony today, i think there was some extraneous testimony that she went into some of the details that you just highlighted, maybe a few jokes which i don't think should ever be made in court. and so i think that that bothered the jurors. now, they would tend to give her a free pass on like somebody like michael cohn, who would do the same but i do think it bothered them. and have you think about it? the prosecution. and it's opening statement had some pretty stark language. they've talked about a conspiracy cover up scheming, that kind of thing. and so they really want to elevate and have jurors think that this is serious stuff. so anytime there's a moment of frivolity in the courtroom or if that goes on for awhile, i think that hurts the prosecution

helps a defense. >> there was reporting that certain daniel's was addressing the jury and made jokes and they didn't seem to respond and people in the courtroom said didn't kaitlan, you can talk about this, that it didn't seem to land well with the jurors because it was such a tense environment in such a serious subject that she was talking about yeah. i just i don't think there's really any circumstance. i know you mentioned earlier if something isn't planned and there's a little humor, yes, it's a good time to release jurors can laugh at that, but any kind of planned humor is just a courtroom is not the place for that. and i think they probably picked up on that and if they maybe smiled or looked at each other, whatever happened, i don't think that they appreciated that when on cross examination when she was asked to she hated don trump. does she said yes do jurors appreciate that honesty? you think more or do they suddenly now question her motives? >> i think some of them i think a little bit of bove i think they probably appreciated it, but also thought, well, what is her reason for testifying? what does she here for? and i know there was the discussion earlier about cross and dirac.

maybe she was more credible. i think norman, you were talking about this. i think to me the big thing is that if your demeanor changes from direct across the jury's not going to think that you're that credible. they're going to question how truthful you are, how believable you are, and how likable you are. so whether or not but whatever she said during the current across that maybe she didn't touch on during the direct if the demeanor changes and it's a different person that's going to hurt her credibility currently. >> she was at times talking directly to the jury. >> do you have a view some witnesses and answering questions, answer to the jury and others answered to the lawyer do you think one of those is the correct approach? i think being natural is the best. so i like it when a client if somebody says, could you explain to the jury then you look at the jury. i think it's unnatural and jurors get a little weirded out by it. if the leuser witness are talking, and then every time there's an answer, they pivot and look at the jerry. i don't think that's natural. i think it's good to try it at least elicit and prompt them to look at the jury so that the jury feels like you're having a conversation. >> i asked your opinion about having two lawyers on the jury

yes so it was not inadvertent. >> certainly. and it's very interesting. this is a white-collar type of logical accomplished jury. their sales people, that jury that i can tell you? >> yes. maybe not that each typical for new york county, but the other lawyers are going to have probably undue influence. it's interesting that there are two. now, i don't know. they didn't run out of strikes because they were chosen in the first seven. so maybe one side thought the other would burn a strike on a lawyer or the other? either way though, i think maybe the thinking as these lawyers are going to strictly adhere to the law council, the trump attorneys regarding the lawyers, would you have told them to strike them? what would you say? i think this case it's okay to keep them on i think it's okay. >> i think that a lot of times lawyers they've been they've seen situations where ethics maybe we're questioned and maybe some shady things going on and they can distinguish that between illegality and maybe that's the whole, they're not going to get bamboozled by some of the salacious details

of what's going on in this case. so it's always risky and it's interesting that there's not only one, but two lawyers on this jury for sure. >> necklace, the chunk attorney at one point during her crossing examination said to stormy daniels, you aggressively rehearsed for this with the prosecution didn't you and stormy daniels pushback on the characterization. she said she did go over her testimony with them. i wonder though how the jury here is that people who may not know what, how prosecutors do work with the witnesses that they call of what they're going to say. >> i think most jurors know that witness this is do prepare and in a way it shows that they're taking it seriously. and i know they didn't get into that. so i don't think that was too much of a surprise, but most jurors do make dan france that if you're going to get up and testify, case like this, you're certainly going to prepare for it. and rehearses a word. maybe you wanted to use that, wouldn't be the word that stormy daniels isn't nicholas tax yeah. >> i've judges say when that line of cross-examination comes up, judges just interject. there's nothing improper objection i didn't ask it. nobody asked you to say that, judge.

>> well, no. if no one has no one asked you that, there's no question object to the judge judge that's really doing judge. judges. i think i'm not sure why the one thing this wasn't your question, but the one thing i think in terms of that, that's related to that i think when hol picks said that she was nervous, that's something that i think is in your pr that i'm sure where that's some of the jury can relate to. so when that's elicited, jurors can appreciate that. that brings them down to earth a little bit it's true that someone like her, she's not used to testifying, but there's a fine line between that and saying are you rehearse with this and you're basically the implication is your attorneys either told you what to say or you know what to say and they told you how to say it will often the first thing i say if it's not my gross examination, i'll say miss ms daniels, this is the first time you want. i've ever spoken, correct? correct. >> that's not true with the prosecutor, correct? >> correct. >> could you tell me to approximately how many times have you met with them? >> on what date and what was the first time you met with the

second time and the best part is if they like well, i don't know. so you met with them so many times that you don't even remember how do you as defense, have right to meet with them and to talk to them about their testimony which the trump team hasn't done with all the witnesses there, but they usually they usually say no. >> they usually say why would it different? why would the defense counsel not want to meet with other witnesses were definitely wants you to why they say no there's no way for that to really get i've never i don't recall a prosecutor saying, well, did mr. iyad ever tried to talk to you? yeah. >> i'm asking if todd, blanche and trump's other attorneys have the right to reach out to some of these these witnesses that we've seen to talk to them about what they're going to say on the stand and they didn't and do that, why would they not have done that well i don't i don't can't answer that question, but usually i would ask my investigator, hey, pick up the phone and so you've stormy daniels will talk to us one out of 100 times a

witnesses. you think it's a good idea as what well? >> absolutely. if you can if they're willing to talk to you, but they usually don't. but about the nervous thing when i put a witness on the stand and i would say a universe right now, they'll see i see, you know, what salma, a little bit, but we'll get through this together. >> it's valid. i keep coming back to what you were saying about the jury and all the inks that went into constituting this jury in the first place they understand the stakes at this case. and i think a lot of them probably understand how their lives are probably going to change after all of this. when when stormy daniels inserts this implication that there is there are vendettas at play here. her's maybe michael cohen's later how does the jury react to that when they know that there is maybe they're not following the news, but the president of the united states, the guy who used to be president is sitting right there. they know that there's a political implication, right? >> i think because of who these jurors are, and they've lived here for they've known trump for 40 years. and so i don't

think that there are shocked by that the conscience of the jury is not shocked when they hear that information. it's something that if they here once or twice they might they go, wow, that's interesting, and they want to know how it relates to the case. but two, that i just don't think it's that big of a powerful point that they're trying to make. i do think the jurors are wondering how everything's going to connect to the verdict questions that they're supposed to answer. and that'll be really interesting. i haven't seen that those actual questions i want to know what they are because you might have a jury that is prone to convector. they think they were the product they side with the prosecution. they rhie the law verdict form, and they don't or the other way around, they sayyed with the defense and they read the questions and maybe this means that we should convex. so that'll be really interesting for gunner. thank you so much for your good dabei and everybody in the panel thank you. appreciate it. ahead. how prison biden today condemned to surge of anti-semitism in the, since the october 7 of mass attack that and report from israel and the state of the war instance fire toxics so great moscow is was at the absolute peak of his celebrity in olympic heroes,

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wake vibrant with two times more natural essential oils, but up to 120 days of amazing fragrance for dual pack. now, that's a breath of fresh air wake at a holocaust remembering ceremony today, president biden irs, the world not to forget what happened in israel on october 7. >> he also reiterated, his quote, ironclad commitment to israel's right to exist meantime, the idf, today's sees the palestinian sayyed the raffa border crossing of vital entry point for eyvind to gaza. that is uncertainty remains over ceasefire proposal that hamas claims to have accepted of, course award is in jerusalem, the latest course or what gaps remain between what hamas agreed to yesterday or say they agree to yesterday and what israel's willing to accept so anderson, there seemed to be two key areas of disagreement here. the primary one relates to the 33 hostages who would be released as a part of this deal that was supposed to include women, female soldiers, the

elderly, and the sick. but hamas are saying that in the agreement that they signed onto, essentially, that some of those 33 could be dead bodies if they're not able to locate those hostages alive. and the israelis have said that that is completely impossible for them. so that's the key area than another issue is this issue of whether israeli forces would pull out of the gaza strip entirely. hamas has said again, in the proposed agreement that they signed onto that, it would entail israel completely pulling out its forces. israel has said, there is no possibility of that happening now, while it sounds like there's a lot of daylight between the two sides, us officials have said and we heard from white house spokesperson john kirby today that he believes the gaps can be closed. we know there has been a flurry of diplomatic activity talks ongoing in cairo today cia director bill burns, who was in cairo, will be

flying to israel tomorrow to meet with his counterpart, david barney at masada, also to meet with the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. so even though there is still some real distance on these core issues, there is a huge amount of diplomatic pressure and efforts going on to try to get the two sides to come together and lasting deal. andrew serwer, the latest about what's happening. >> rafah well, there have been airstrikes. today. we know according to health officials, on the ground that at least 27 people were killed, including six women and nine children. the idf also reported the nearly 20 rockets were fired from that raffa area. the israelis are now full control of that raw four raffa border crossing area, which means that that border crossing is closed. kerem shalom is also closed. and so you're hearing a lot of concern from aid organizations

whose say that in less that aid is able to get in unless those trucks with fuel, with food, with medicine are able to get in that you're going to be looking at dramatically worse humanitarian situation. there has been a huge flight of people some 100,000 who are already on the move according to the head of unrwa, some 200 people moving every single our hospitals in the eastern part of gaza. some of them been forced to close among them, abeer use of al-najjar have let's put all that is a hospital that treats people with dialysis who have kidney issues. so again, very real fears that what israel is describing as a sort of surgical precision anti terror, offensive could turn into something broader. and that this will have a devastating impact on the already the dire humanitarian situation in gaza. anderson cursor award. thanks so much the news continues right here on cnn why is

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