din, they just convinced him to put it to a vote, whether the american press, besides the two of us, is writing or speculating on this subject, because apparently, during all the conversations and persuasions of mr. johnson, no one held a candle close to him , and if it is guaranteed that no one can say what happened there, except for my colleagues, ukrainian journalists and analysts, who always hold candles everywhere, well, i think, you know, not the source of such uh well such beliefs, this is an article that appeared in the magazine politician, this is a serious magazine, written, the article is written by two, if i am not mistaken, serious people who say that they had access to insiders who told them this or that, and they just emphasize that when the meeting between zelenskyi and johnson took place, zelenskyi allegedly convinced him ... that this is a matter of being or not

being, and then additional influences somehow affected johnson himself. er, so there's reason to think there's something to that. so, it's not some, it's not some, you know, some yellow press that writes about it, or some tablo, this is a serious publication, which mainly, which in general always checks the information that it provides, or it... that's all, it was decisive, i'm rather inclined to think that there were various factors here, to some extent zelenskyi influenced, some there, the baptists, the ukrainian diaspora pressured him, convinced him, a lot of analysts, a lot of scientists, journalists, supported ukraine, and they said this very openly, so the pressure on him was from the outside, what do you have to do and on... that you

support the genocide and so further, and at the same time there is probably a certain pressure, so to speak, with middle of a more moral character, that you are a christian, you as a person of good will, well, something like that, you have a duty, a moral duty, to somehow influence the situation, but you understand, this is all to a certain extent speculation, i have no doubt that scientists will appear in a week or two. articles that will be, well, maybe something similar, maybe something quite the opposite to argue, one thing we can assume , i think with certainty, is that somehow, that johnson wouldn't have changed his mind, he wouldn't have accelerated this process if trump were against it, so it can be assumed that for some reasons unknown to us, trump changed his mind and gave either his support or his support. expressed

his neutrality against such an issue, and this opened the door for johnson, because without trump , johnson probably would not have dared to take such a bold step. mr. professor, what does sociology say the latest. i understand that sociology is very high-quality and very professional in america, who is there, who will be voted for in the fall, because there are rumors, i have nothing to refer to, verbally, someone said that according to the last according to the data, biden is already slightly ahead of trump according to the general american version, what do you say? well , not really, so the latest ratings, i just looked at them today, by the way, well, this is such a set of ratings, trump has 44.8%, biden has 44.4 or so. five, well, in

principle, this is a stalemate, they are equal, but as we already, we have already talked about it in our past conversations, in fact , the election does not depend on that, but on seven states, these are illinois, pennsylvania, indiana, arizona, and there are two or three where trump prevails, only in one state, barely biden himself holds first place, so if the situation remains like this, then even if trump, even if biden won a majority of all the votes, and when he loses in those six or seven states, then he loses, well, the american system is so strange that a person can have the majority, so to speak, well, the majority of the general votes, but it can transform. for a minority of the so-called

electoral votes, and then you lose, but are there any thoughts about changing this system, changing it? not direct elections for direct elections, because we understand that these are voters or voters, these are all the people who, no matter what we vote there, if seven states vote like that, then obviously, if we are democrats, we will lose to the republicans, something or no one is talking about reforms somewhere on the mountain, somewhere in washington , well, not in washington, rather journalists, scientists write a lot about it, that means analysts, etc. who say, and they are right, that this is some kind of wild system, it does not suit the modern world at all, maybe in the 19th, at the beginning of the 19th century, it had a certain sense, but now it does not, but you understand, the whole political system , especially the election system, it is built in such a way on

such and such a principle of this lecture college, therefore every party... and in general the entire political community is already used to it, fully understands how it works, how it does not work, and they have to switch to a completely different principle, which means that where the majority as such decides, it would mean a change, a radical change of various institutions, thinking, mentality, there different groups representing different interests would have to change their approaches. for many it would be convenient, but i think for it would be somewhat uncomfortable for the majority, and in this way, and in order to implement such a thing, the constitution must be changed, and this is already 2/3, or even 3/4 of all votes, so you understand, there are such obstacles here that it is difficult to imagine that it

will change, well, in the near future, maybe if there was some serious crisis, well then we would be... everyone is forced to somehow react to all this, but this crisis has not yet happened, maybe if trump wins, maybe to be if trump loses, and this could give a certain impetus to my american policy, but until now, although in principle many people agree that this system is outdated, it is simply very difficult to change it. mr. professor, behind my back... and trump and biden, and we know since yesterday that biden volunteered for a debate with trump, what are the expectations from this debate, both guys are not young, outwardly, how to say subjectively, it looks, that trump is younger, he is more lively,

more energetic than biden, everyone thought that biden could withdraw, not everyone, many think that biden could withdraw precisely because of this. that he might not find something there while you during the debate, now he agreed, and what are the premonitions, what is the american press writing, what will we continue to speculate with you? well, you see, the thing is that both of them, in fact, when it comes to the cognitive abilities or abilities of those people, neither one nor the other is at a... quite appropriate level, sometimes biden will say some stupid things, well, let's say rather, he will make some mistakes, wars are as stupid as mistakes, and trump is both mistakes and stupid, so in such a debate i assume that both will be, well, very

sharply attack, they will avoid discussing serious issues of this or that, it is rather if for... in general, someone will emphasize serious economic, social, international issues, it will rather be biden, because he understands that after all, his ratings depend from what he did or did not do, trump , on the contrary, will emphasize that biden did something stupid, that he is responsible for the end of the world, well, for everything, he will insult him, he constantly seems to use it. there are different terms that are offensive, he it will also be done publicly, the only question is whether biden will respond at the same level, and here of course, on the one hand, it is attractive, because if this one calls biden

a sleeping joe, then this one could answer that this one, that he is some there is a sex maniac or something like that, but of course, in this way he lowers to a certain extent... the level of discussion for trump is not a problem, because he always discusses at this level, but biden still wants to present himself as people, well, as a statesman, as... who is responsible, who is responsible president and will remain so, will this change anyone's mind, anyone, i'm not so sure, i think unlike other debates like this, people will still watch, those who hate trump will continue to follow him to hate, those who adore him will continue to adore him, but there is a certain percentage, he, i don't know if it's 5 or 10%, but still there is a certain... percentage of people who are somewhat hesitant, and that's mog, and this debate

might influence him, rather influence them, but we'll see, until then, you know what there are so many possible changes that it is difficult to say how it will all look like, and these courts influence in which, to what extent these courts, and and and and whom they influence, well, of course 5-10%, but can they... fundamentally influence and people who watch the trial against trump will say: i will not vote for him, or on the contrary they will say, no, now i will definitely vote, or whether we do not know, well, you understand, the most weighty, most important courts, these processes, they are unlikely will take place before the elections, there we are talking about a serious, possible, illegal act, which the actions that trump himself has taken are actually mentioned there. crimes, but good or bad, well , of course it's good for him, they

probably won't happen before the elections, and if they do, they won't end, and that court, this process, which has already started in new york, is the least important, it's going there we are talking about some money that he gave to some prostitution, apparently in order to somehow influence the elections, his, well, defense. says that this is simply a question of his moral and ethical shortcomings, we are not talking about any crimes, the democrats will had to prove that it was not only that he paid off some prostitute, but that he had exactly the goal, and it will be difficult to prove that it was actually about the election and so on, he and his defenders are already talking about the fact that this is a political process. and that he is a political, so to speak, dissident, may be a political prisoner, his, his

base is convinced that it is political, the democrats who are his opponents are convinced that it is not political, until now, when reading such a neutral the press, she somehow hesitates, i wouldn't, you can't say that everyone convinced that this or that, thank you, excuse me, please, oleksandr motyl, historian, political scientist, professor at rudger university , united states of america, thank you very much, now it is behind me, now i will not be between trump and biden, and you will watch advertising instead of me, and then we'll talk about china first of all, because nataliya plaksienko butyrska, an expert on east asian issues, master of foreign policy, but that's only after advertising. when you sleep on an uneven surface, the spine takes the wrong position

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behind me the american flag and the flag chinese of the people's republic, and you will now have nataliya plaksienko butyrska, an expert on east asian issues, well, master of foreign policy, good health, ms. natalya, thank you for joining us, i will explain to you the reason for your appearance, well, this is our bowing invitation, but apart from that, we would like, i would like people to understand, the tremendous activity, we see, one after the other, going to... deng xiaoping, now the secretary of state of the united states, then deng xiaoping himself will go to europe, to france and in to magyars and to serbia, and these dances around the official beijing, to add to that, the fact that i just listened to the so-called good russians,

and they also write that this china is unshakable and... that despite all efforts to somehow influence china , china will continue to support russia, and from yet another fourth source, it became known that all major banks of china have already finally refused to settle with the russian federation, in short, it is impossible to understand what is happening there, please tell us congratulations, mr. mykola, indeed very multifaceted diplomacy and in... in all this, of course, china will defend its interests, and defends them, and accordingly, all these visits, they are connected with multifacetedness and with the wishes of our western partners, to find points of understanding with china, and there are many of them, and with american partners, and of course with russia, which is very seriously considering whether

china's position there will not change or whether the west will not succeed in pulling it over to its side, and here... here two things must be said, if we are from the point from the point of view of ukraine , we look at china and we would like it to take a western position and in relation to russia's war against ukraine and in relation to russia, to become fair, then unfortunately this will not happen for a number of reasons, on the other hand, if russia thinks that china will go completely in the same car with it and pull the adventure that russia made? then of course not, either, and here china got into a certain situation where it needs to weigh the risks, which ones, which are not... all this interaction with russia and, in particular, with regard to trade with russia, and in particular with regard to the assistance of those elements that have a dual

purpose, and this time blinken has already said very clearly, if you cannot stop it yourself, then washington will help you, and in this case not only the united states of america, but also the countries of the big seven and the countries of the european union, they are in the same direction. its efforts to stop the circumvention of sanctions that help russia develop its defense-industrial complex, and it can be said that in this case the united states is more intrusive and tougher in this position, our european partners, they are forced to weigh such a difficult situation for them, when it is necessary to drastically change policy in relation to china, and it is not easy, because you mentioned even in germany. about scholz's visit, he had, there were, his country had such important supports: energy interaction, cheap energy resources from russia, and

cheap markets, and convenient markets in china, well, that helped him, it helped develop the german economy, so without of russian energy resources, germany is now coping, but, for example, german companies are not ready refuse to interact with china. and it will be a very painful such wound for the europeans in general, that is, they are in such a difficult situation in such a dilemma, when they need to pay so much attention on the one hand to the fact that china, it is going on such a difficult path, and if we allow dependence on china, then the whole story will turn out, as with russia, and it is necessary to gradually reduce the risks and pay attention to security issues, because china in all these... everyone understands this, everyone talks about it, it helps very seriously russia to build up its defense capabilities, this may eventually backfire, now

it is directed against ukraine, but it may also backfire against european countries as well, i.e. ms. natalya, ms. natalya, look, i am sorry, please forgive me, but i have the impression that this two rivers, two such important currents, in words... china and russia, in the economy, but i have vague doubts, because this is with the banks, this is even with them, if they buy that oil and that gasoline at such prices, that it is not profitable and nothing for the budget of the russian federation falls, to build a gas pipeline, well, russia is not able to build a large second second second series. this gas guzzler, and china will not manage to help, there are billions, tens of billions, and so on, that is, some such, yes, we, friendship with china, russian-chinese brothers

forever, as mao and stalin think of us, quoting a song from the 50s , i don't remember how it sounded there, these are all quotes, but in some pragmatic moments, bearing in mind that even trade with russia is some up to... 10%, trade with the usa and europe is up to 80%, and you sit and think, well, what are we talking about, what great friendship can it be, what do you think about it? well, actually, we started with the fact that china is really self-interested, and accordingly, it understands that russia is currently in such a situation that it depends on china for the diversification of its energy resources, and for example, yes ... you you rightly mentioned oil, which russia sells actively, but china has the ability to change the price, let's say, put pressure

on the price of gas, indeed, putin came two years ago with this the super-large power of siberia-2 project, and china still has not agreed on this project, well, first of all , china is gradually transitioning to green energy, and all projects from these energy sources will gradually lose their importance, well, besides, of course , putin needs the power of siberia-2 in order to redirect the gas that he previously sold to europe, to china, china has many suppliers that are being built in queue to sell him gas, so he's in no hurry, and it's obvious that they really are afraid of secondary sanctions, because you said the right thing: trade between china and russia has increased by 100 billion over the years, that is, in 2-3 years, well, at least 240 billion, they

cannot be compared with 600 with the americans and 700 with the european union, therefore, of course, the chinese banks and chinese companies, they understand the risks and did not want to fall under these secondary sanctions, despite the fact that the political leadership of china itself says that they do not accept, do not join, do not accept any sanctions that have not passed through the un security council , well, they say one thing, but theirs his interest is absolutely in the second. mrs. natalya, the last question, there may be a tail of one more question, but the thorough last question is that in may, putin is going to beijing, we can imagine, it will be another defeat, because, as you said, it is absolutely true that he he was messing around with the gas engine, nothing worked, and such were the advances on all russian channels, now he will sign, hundreds of billions, nothing worked, then

it will happen again, now we will sign something. but nothing will be signed, only words of friendship, well, putin has such a long list that he has to discuss, it is from strategic interaction, and in this case, well, we must understand that china, it is in confrontation with the united states of america, this kind of cold war, we can call it a new type, or strained relations, and even in this case , russia is a serious strategic partner of china on the diplomatic and international level. they share their views of the confrontation by the united states of america, and this confrontation, despite blinken's visit, and despite the change of president, let's say it will not change. in this case, of course, friendship is important for china as well. well, taking into account the confrontation in the asian region, where russia is joining there with its remaining ships from the pacific fleet

to pass through the waters, we will allow it there. there, which are near asian countries, it is understandable, but we also talked about the problems with trade that have appeared and problems with the bank, and putin needs to solve quite such pragmatic things, how to continue trade, which platforms, which they have schemes to invent so that, nevertheless, they could trade with each other, and this practical thing will also be discussed, well, obviously, the war of russia against... ukraine, and putin will talk about his successes there, about his such, about his strength, it is obvious that here too it is important for putin and for russia that china does not join, for example, our global summit, to which our european partners are actively trying to attract it, because from the point of view of russian diplomacy, it will be a defeat if china will join, because after all

the summit in switzerland is... built on the peace formula proposed by ukraine, that is, this foundation for peace negotiations, it is so ukrainian-centric, and i do not like it at all, thank you very much, thank you very much, nataliya plaksienko butyrska, expert on eastern issues asia, master of foreign policy, now the news from the tv press performed by iryna koval, and then advertising, and then taras kuzio, a british political scientist, and i'm with you... i'm waiting for 15 minutes, but i invite you, dear iryna. thank you, mr. mykola, how are you? i will tell you about the most important events in just a moment.

for your attention, a news release on the spresso tv channel, in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all viewers. and let's start with the situation on...