>> martha: new untold story podcast leading the harvey weinstein defends talking about how and why the conviction was shockingly overturned. >> there were more uncharged crimes that were allowed to testify then actual crimes in the case and the appellate court felt that that was an unfair decision it showed propensity and that was the only reason to allow that evidence in and it did not allow harvey to have a fair tribal. >> martha: what happens to him now listen and that's the story, that's friday will see you on monday. [ ♪♪ ] >> thank you martha day eight of the trump trial here in new york

city donald tropics back to the leave the courtroom at any moment now he is expected to speak we will take you there live when he does here is what we know right now new york banker gary farrow the third witness to take the stand more on his testimony in just a moment's meanwhile the second witness to be called was on the stand briefly she is a former trump organization employee and was donald trump's longtime assistant multiple decades she worked for him under direct questioning graph said she had a vague recollection of seeing stormy daniels in the reception area of the office on cross-examination she said she assumed daniels being there for the apprentice earlier during the cross-examination of the tabloid executive david packer trump's legal team tried to poke holes in the prosecution claims that the former president is directly tied to buying negative stories to protect his election chances and that is where we are

at this hour for a clock on the east coast walk everyone i am sandra smith in for neil cavuto and this is your world, legal eagles andy mccarthy and tom dupree here to weigh in shortly but first let's get to nate foy who was outside that courthouse on what has been going on inside what do we know nate. >> hello sandra the direct examination of gary pharaoh is underway he's a former senior managing director at first public bank and speaking about his professional history with president trump's former lawyer michael cohen he worked with kellan from 2015 until to the best of his recollection 2018 or 2019 he says he was assigned cohen as a client because he was knowledgeable and skilled enough to deal with clients who may be a bit difficult he said that cohen had several accounts at first public bank if there is some reporting that this is the bank that cohen used to wire the 130,000 payment to adult film actress stormy daniels so right

now they're talking about his history as a banker and working with cohen and this comes after you mentioned the cross-examination finished for president trump's longtime executive assistant rhonda graft after days of david packer test when the graft was done in less than an hour she said she vaguely remembers seeing adult film actress stormy daniels at trump tower before the election assuming that stormy was there to discuss possibly joining the apprentice she described trump as a fair and respectful boss saying that he respected her intelligence and she would not have state of the trump organization for 34 years if you didn't need trump organization also paying for her attorneys and then david packer was on the witness stand earlier answering questions from both the das office and the trump lawyers he was asked about a conciliation agreement between american media and the federal election commission as well as a nonprosecution agreement he said that he did not thank you was doing anything wrong in 2016 in terms of committing

campaign-finance law but he did say he now believes in his handling of the karen mcdougall story that he does believe that he violated federal election law so we had three different witnesses take the stand so far today right now we are going over the history of this banker gary pharaoh from first public bank they're asking about his dealings with michael cohen we will keep you updated minute buy minute and we send it back to you. >> we know you will thank you and we expect to see the former president shortly we are watching for that so what are the big takeaways from today's test money with us now the former assistant u.s. attorney and fox news contributor and mccarthy and former deputy assistant andy dupree thank you so much for joining us we do await the departure of the former president possibly any moment now but we have yet to see on this particular day it be adjourned so anti- to you first you have been watching every minute of this what has struck you so far today?

>> the last part of the report we just heard i think is the most important part which is that the judge is obviously allowing the state to argue or to introduce evidence of the state of mind of david packer and i imagine it will be the same with michael cohen that they were violating the campaign-finance laws or they believe they violated the campaign-finance laws that evidence should be inadmissible against trump david packer's state of mind with respect to the federal campaign-finance laws is not evidence that trump violated them much less evidence of what trump state of mind was obviously we have talked a lot about the campaign-finance laws alvin bragg does not have authority to enforce those that authority exclusively belongs to the justice department and the federal election commission so i don't even think it should be in

the case but certainly you shouldn't be having that kind of testimony. >> to you on this week spoke about this time yesterday what has changed is that packer is no longer on the stand we have then gone to the former presidents longtime assistant, michael cohen's former banker, what have you taken away so far from today >> i've taken a few things away i think the first is i've been fascinated see the trump legal defence strategy play out we were all wondering how they would attack this case and i think today we really got to see it they kind of took a hammer to a lot of what packer was saying about giving trump special treatment and i think they did an effective job of showing the jury that, in fact, this mistreatment that was given to a lot of famous politicians and celebrities it wasn't something especially done for former president trump the other thing that is interesting to me today is i think now we will see a period of this case were the testimony maybe a bit dry we

will hear a lot about banking records and banking transactions and i think the onus is really on the prosecutors to keep the jury's interest this will be a long trial you don't want juries falling asleep you don't want to lose the jury a few days into the trial so i think the next few days of this trial will be of real test for the prosecution can they present their case and their evidence crisply in a way that maintains the jury's attention. >> so bear with me as i go through an e-mail that is popping up from inside the courtroom from just moments ago you can tell me what you take away from it, during a line of questioning right now they were asked about the first republic e-mail server the bank of michael cohen former banker during the line of questioning trump can be seen leaning over speaking with his attorney within looking at government exhibit 361 it is a first public bank e-mail dated ten, 11, 2016 that was sent from his us

assistant the subject of the e-mail was missed a call from michael cohen michael asked for pharaoh to call him back a look at another exhibit 362 that first republic bank e-mail from two days later it was sent to pharaoh from his assistant regarding another missed call from cohen i am getting somewhere i promise pharaoh recalled that the two calls were about, cohen wanted to open a new limited liability company an llc account, cohen had a limited liability company to be an account for real estate do you take anything away from that update from just a moment ago in the courtroom. >> yes, i think what's going on here is there trying to suggest that cohen in conjunction with trump and packer were involved in centrifuge, which is what you would expect in a conspiracy case and a one the things that was done was that cohen opened

an llc because he understood that what he was doing was shady so the last thing he would want to do for example would be to pay stormy daniels directly so he came up with a device to sluice the payment through and this all goes to the idea that if you were planning among three people to suppress information that could have been clearly damaging to trump that that's a crime rather than a legal nondisclosure agreement that you may have very good reason to use an llc to execute since the whole point of it is to keep things under wraps they are trying to suggest i think that something that is legal is illegal just like they're trying to suggest that there was a major campaign-finance crime based on the state of mind of other people besides trump that should not be evidence in the case.

>> and a quick final thought from you as well. >> my final thought is that if this is the way the prosecution is going trying to prove questions of intent and motive through complicated documents and e-mails and llc creation and the like that is a hard road for the prosecutors to how i think that ultimately their case will rest on weather they can actually have the witnesses or will it come into court look the jury in the eye and admit that there was some kind of conspiracy because if they're going to try to prove this through those complicated exhibits, 362 e-mails and the like that's very tough to get a jury to follow all that and convict. >> thank it could have both of you think regina seeming all right we will keep watching it and today's session is expected to wrap shortly as we look alive at the court house there and the former president he is expected to make remarks when he emerges from the courtroom when he does we are there, meanwhile those anti- israel protests are continuing is it time to pull

federal funding? house oversight committee member and south carolina republican nancy mace is here.

>> we are awaiting possible trump remarks once court wraps up for the week which could be any minute now in the meantime the judge has scheduled another hearing over additional alleged trump gag order violations for next week so where do our next guest see those going? a former federal prosecutor and camille defence attorney here thank you to both of you for joining us you first on this the former president has called for multiple judges to be removed ahead of this gag order decision what you see happening with

this? >> what they're going to continue to do doldrums what they've been doing all along gagging him and ignoring these various claims that he has made that the judges that he's been facing both in this trial as well as in others seem obviously biased and prejudiced against him i think he makes an excellent case for that it's not just that he finds himself in democratic manhattan is that these judges are specifically connected in a way to interest in the outcome of this trial that is simply something that i see as unethical, his daughter is a top democrat fundraiser something that is inherently a matter that the public would look in on and question his ability to be fair, he is obviously had one ruling after another in trump's disfavour and the gag order itself is something that infringes on the first amendment right of political speech in a campaign and it's deeply concerning in the judge just seems to have no

perspective as to what the appearance is from the outside i think you should be disqualified a thank you should recuse himself but it won't happen and down trump will continue to raise these issues and hopefully the american people will see that that is, trumps claims are very valid under the circumstances. >> the former president has been fuming about this gag order flight for quite some time now it was wednesday that he put out a message on truth social saying we have a rigged judge was working for the democratic party and refuses to terminate this case which should have never been brought by soft on crime alvin bragg he then says this case should immediately be removed and he has done so multiple times, where do you see those going as we do expect this decision next week? >> in terms of any sort of gag order i don't blame donald trump for being frustrate by them it's a clear violation of his first mm and writes and done intentionally just like the fact that judge mershon has not

recuse himself also intentional and part of the fix being in if you ask me but i did i want to mention something else because in terms of, a mirror of what donald trump says in that this case should go away i thought of something, as frustrating as it has been for almost, all the legal analysts that continually said look there is no crime here we all agree with that the evidence so far is of nonillegal activity allegedly to support what other crime at the end of the day but here is something that we need to point out, when the prosecution finally got up and gave their opening statement , peeled back the curtain and let us all know that the mystery crime that elevated this to felony status so that we could be here was a misdemeanour state election law that says you are not allowed to unlawfully conspire to prevent or promote someone to public office, at that moment sandra i think donald trump's camp could have stood up and said i making a motion to dismiss because donald

trump could not have violated that law because donald trump was not running for state office he was not running for mayor he was running for a federal position as president of united states he cannot violate a state election law case dismissed that's the only reason we are here and i don't know if that happened i don't know if judge mershon said note were not to do that but it could happen and it should have happened. >> andrew on that note everyone of these e-mails that pops up where we get details of what is happening inside the courtroom it's just not happening where we say wow okay this is very juicy. >> were at a point right now where the prosecution certainly has not proven their case yet, there has been no major bombs that have been dropped, no evidence of actual criminal activity, as a former federal prosecutor i will tell you that oftentimes you start your case to the process of essentially giving the background and the

introduction to what happened then that's what they are doing, i actually think what they're really doing what alvin bragg's office is really doing is they're just trying to air dirty laundry it's not criminal conduct it's just dirty laundry it's the same dirty laundry that donald trump wanted to essentially put into the hush money payments back in 2016 because it was a nuisance so it's the type of i guess extortion claims that were coming forward back in 2015 and 2016 that he rightfully wanted to do away with and now alvin bragg has taken the opportunity to politicize it and just air it all out there. >> well i can only imagine what we will hear has the former president steps up to a microphone which he is expected to shortly win court adjourns we have not gotten where the that has happened just yet but we are watching it thank you to both you, john and/or thank you with the first week of testimony coming to a close how does donald trump think it all went

we will see what he says when he speaks moments from now and with trump on trial biden on the trail painting he is open to a presidential debate how serious is that? how are some new numbers in the economy playing into that we are on it

>> alive look here in new york city when he steps out he is expected to speak we will have that for you live

>> the first full week of testimony in the new york versus trump trial is coming to an end of the former president expect it to speak as he exits meanwhile the prosecution is questioning its third witness gary farrow what role does his testimony play in this trial so far george washington university

law professor jonathan turley the former assistant district attorney and host of the colonel justice podcast inside the law fill holloway back with us former deputy assistant attorney general tom dupree welcome to you all welcome back and jonathan's you first on this we know that what we do know about gary ferro is this is michael cohen's former banker he is testifying we assume he still testifying at this moment what have you been able to take away from his testimony so far. >> well we have a couple of what we call housekeeping witnesses most far laying the foundation in terms of transactions and money that may have passed between some of these characters what is really striking about the first few days of testimony is how this entire trial really does centre on michael cohen, we all talk about how michael cohen is the centre of this case but the assumption was that no one

in their right mind would put all their money on michael cohen for anything but when you look at these questions some of the information they are eliciting it really does look like the prosecution is putting everything on cohen and they seem to be laying the foundation and he supposed to be the one to deliver the coup de grace i just don't see how he can do that. >> we haven't heard from you just yet fail, what has struck you so far and as far as witnesses this would be the third witness that has been called up so far we know there is still a lot of star witnesses we have not yet seen and heard from yet. >> it's great to be with you again as always listen this has all been i think windowdressing so far i haven't seen anything that points to a scintilla of a crime here ordinarily i would say if this was a typical trial where you had a fair judge and you had a fair and unbiased a jury and a fair jury pool to

pull that jury from i would say that the trial would be collapsing under its own weight because the prosecutor seems to be just having the trial looking for a crime but so far they have not laid a hand on donald trump in terms of proving any criminal activity and i don't think that they can but when i say that under a normal child this is what would happen it would implode this judge has gone out of his way in my opinion to prove every step of the way that he cannot be fair to the defendant all defendants regardless of who you are whether you're donald trump or anyone else you are entitled to a fair judge and there is not one in this case he has indicated that he should to be recused he should have spent that motion to recuse to another judge but because he graded his own paper, so to speak, that proves that he is biased and he needs to be gonna don't know why he is not but he needs to be and this thing is a sham and needs to stop.

>> just quoting directly from the e-mail from inside the courtroom here tom just saying that every time michael cohen spoke to me he showed a sense of urgency it appears tom that there is sort of painting of this picture of pharaoh michael cohen's former banker that he changed course at least one time before opening the llc that we were just discussing that was then apparently used to make the stormy daniels payment reading directly from this he stated he was changing course and no longer wanted to open resolution consultants and wanted to open a new account and it details what they are saying with urgency in these phone calls tom what you take away from this? >> what i take away from it is that there is a lot of behaviour here on the part of michael cohen that could accurately be described as sketchy or suspect but i am hard-pressed to see at least at this stage in the trial where the evidence in the criminality is i think that the

prosecutor strategy here is to put a lot of evidence, we heard from pecker a lot of sordid stuff about new york tabloids and were hearing from the banker who is currently [ inaudible ] shady business by michael cohen but if i'm a juror i am thinking when did the dots get connected? i have learned a lot about these tabloids have learned a lot that michael cohen's kind of a shadowy and sketchy character but i'm still hunting right now for evidence of criminal intent and i think as this trial continues the jurors will start getting antsy her and ends here and basically saying show as the beef we want to see evidence of a crime that's over here for. >> and we just got word from inside the courtroom that the jurors have been dismissed we have not gotten word that court is adjourned from the day we will likely see the president when they leave the courtroom there that being said and following up on what tom just said according to pharaoh and reading this again directly every time that michael cohen spoke to me he showed a sense of urgency although he said often

no matter what the matter was this is apparently being highlighted as important cohen wanted to create a new account for essential consultants llc he provided information to open the account cohen answered know this is the entity associated with fundraising slash political entities, to your point about the housekeeping that has happened right now it's tough to see where they are going with a lot of this but you tell us. >> well it's a funny thing the prosecution is obviously laying the foundation for the great arrival of michael cohen something that most of us would truly loathe to call to the stand, they seem to be saying here he comes but all of their witnesses are betraying him, just go back and look at the last three you have pecker saying he exaggerated a lot and he would scream at me on occasions you have this guy who says everything seemed to be absolutely an emergency you

don't exactly have a very compelling image of michael cohen and becker said when i mentioned that trump will reimburse michael cohen he said he didn't know what i was talking about but none of that really. >> jonathan apologies the former president just stepped out let's listen. >> sitting in this courthouse followed by an indictment to try to win the election medical opponent nothing like this has ever happened eight days the economy is falling apart now you're seeing it it's gonna get worse oil prices going up you have college campuses all over close down and we sit here day after day after day which is there plan to think they might be able to eke out an election but i doubt it the poll numbers are very good for us i just want

to say biden's debate he can do it in time he wants including tonight here i am i invited him to the courthouse it's all well court needed to tack on apical opponent but i'm here i'm ready willing and able and if he wants i'll do it on monday night or tuesday night or wednesday night will be in michigan state that he has destroyed because of the oil industry were not going to have any jobs left in michigan no water oil to china other places with his ridiculous mandate electric vehicle mandate but we are willing to do it monday night tuesday night wednesday night thursday night or friday night on national television we are ready just tell me where we'll do it at the white house i would be very comfortable for me actually you tell me where we are ready he is august he not showing up now but

he said the other day while debate but i don't think he'll debate maybe he will maybe he will i'm not sure but that's the story and here we are, ready willing and able and we don't see them i don't think he will be here maybe next week but i doubt it but maybe next week so i just want to thank everyone for being here i know that you have to suffer through this like everybody else nothing this is a case that should never have been brought every legal scholar every legal expert andy mccarthy jonathan andy every single one jonathan turley came out with a statement reporting the child today as scathing report can't believe this is happening in our country there's no case here there's no case whatsoever we have a conflicted judge it shouldn't be happening not in

this country thank you very much >> martha: we were holding on just for a be there to see if you answered any questions jonathan but one of the legal expert that he decided is with as, jonathan turley, your reaction to what you heard. >> well he cited andy mccarthy first i just want to note that and with some sense of open bitterness but the problem is that we just finished this week of testimony and so far it has been a slur pretrial it's all russian no nutrition you sort of look at this and what did we actually gain from these witnesses? usually speaking as a criminal defence attorney you expect the lead witness to really set the table for the jury but in both

relationships and trials the first impression matters what's the first impression here? they've been talking about something not in the indictment something that is not a crime and actually there start lead witness seemed to help the president by saying he denied knowledge of reimbursement to michael cohen in that he did this for other celebrities and he did this for trump going back to decades so your left on friday wondering what is the intelligent design here toward conviction and one thing that would help if you would just tell us what's the crime. >> they haven't gotten to that part yet sort of looking at what he said he walked out one of his first words was this should not be happening it should have never happened he said he's been sitting there for eight days he launched into the happenings with the economy which is quite

clearly still watching as he sits in the courtroom oil prices up he said the economy filing apart his words but he sits there day after day and you just heard president biden has agreed to debate in an interview with howard stern today a bit of a shocker because the indication was that he would not debate the president then extended an invitation as soon as next week let's do this we are ready willing and able he suggested next week in michigan he then launched into what he said was a well coordinated attack on a political opponent your reaction to the former president's words. >> how quickly he transitioned from a to sizing the trial to merely going in to campaign mode, i love the fact that he picked up president biden's challenge or leases apparent offer to debate him i love the fact that trump proposed the debate happened the white house, i think the president for the former president is showing that he can actually function

effectively notwithstanding the fact that he doesn't have to spend a lot of his days in a cold courtroom in new york city he's coming out he's clearly comfortable addressing the public he's clearly comfortable transitioning away from the proceeding into political issues and picking up the galt that biden threw down except the debate challenge and i think we will continue to see this as the weeks move ahead in this trial. >> i think his exact words were how about the white house that would be comfortable, all right is filled to with those? >> no sorry i did know that was for me i apologize, i'm still here, we need not look any further than the fact that this trial is happening right now in the middle of the campaign and as the parties get ready to nominate their nominees this summer that fact alone showed that this is apical show trial and the fact that we are not seeing any real hard evidence of criminality is not surprising because look any prosecutor that

would cobble together this ridiculous indictment that takes an expired case on misdemeanour that's expired by the statute of limitations and tries to bootstrap it into 30 felonies by tying it to another misdemeanour that can't be proven either based on the evidence we heard it from mr packer all of that put together it shows you that donald trump is correct in everything that he said criticizing the judge criticizing this trial and honestly this is a situation where the historians of the future will look back and i'm afraid they're not going to be able to have any confidence in the outcome of this case, particularly if there is a conviction. >> anyone who is just turning and now we are listening to the former president who just a part of the courthouse slamming the trial that he said should not be happening court has wrapped, okay he is still departing the courthouse he departed the court room and spoke to cameras just a moment ago we will still watch for his actual departure from the courthouse out to the street

level i believe we did catch that yesterday so were keeping an eye on that jonathan move this forward to us, i believe what they have already said is that there will not be a day of trial on april 29th or on wednesday i guess that leaves us next tuesday they will resume, what is your understanding as to where this goes next? >> they are obviously laying a lot of foundation these past couple of witnesses the question is are they going to call mcdougall i don't see why they would because her relationship is not that material even to the sort of secondary argument they seem to be making with regard to packer, so all of us are really looking at when they're going to bring out michael cohen because he is obviously is becoming more obvious by the day the key linchpin to trump, he's the one who was going to be sort of

feeling in those details he's going to be on the stand for a number of days we don't know when that will happen i would think they would try to put that in the middle of the trial because he is such a high risk and combustible witness i sure as hack wouldn't want to finish with him because if things go badly you don't want that to be the last major thing that the jury sees you want to give yourself a bit of runway in case you have to take off again so we'll have to see but bragg is not informing the defence with any real notice beyond a day or so of the witness order so we have to wait as does the defence >> thank you very much to all three of you very great to have you as we are able to catch the president there live thank you very much jonathan always first in our book could stop looking at emory university in atlanta we are monitoring anti- israel

protest on that campus there and as the protesting teams to ramp up so are economic worries for president biden and legal troubles for former president on trop so how is it all playing output a quick? [ chanting ]

>> you are looking at live at or this was from earlier i should say at emory university in atlanta we are monitoring anti- israel protest like this that are popping up on college campuses coast-to-coast it was a raucous day there on thursday jonathan joins with the latest on the campus it looks a little different today. >> yes very different sandra here at my alma mater several hundred protesters have returned to the quad but so far things here are peaceful several dozen protesters marking to the admit

ration building where they hand-delivered a list of demands ordering police agencies off-campus working to to free incarcerated protesters and granting amnesty to student protesters several dozen demonstrators have also been camping out in the lobby of the theologies cooled many of them actually sleeping there overnight they say and prayed and listened to anyone who wanted to speak including this palestinian student, take a listen. >> this is the most supportive ever seen i'm ashamed to say that before coming to emory i started to lose hope but i'm finding my voice again it's sad to say that it's taken this much violence to get here. >> most undergraduate classes held virtually today coming after yesterday's events in which police arrested 28 protesters who allegedly pushed past officers and set up tents on the campus quadrangle where the university is preparing for its may commencement activities

according to university officials objects were thrown at police and one protester from outside the emory community was tased after allegedly attacking officer university officials say 20 of the 28 protesters arrested have ties to emory and the university is working to expedite the release of any who remain in custody, today the university president issued a statement saying that emory will work to facilitate free flow of peaceful ideas however the university president said that emory will not tolerate any violence or vandalism sandra. >> thank you, a number of gop lawmakers calling to pull federal funding now from these universities were protests are running rampant our next guest is one of them, house oversight member and republican congresswoman nancy mays, it safe to say you are.

>> absolutely anti-semitism should not be funded with american tax dollars and if that's the way to incentivize folks to behave better and allow jewish students to go to class we have jewish students on ivy league campuses today that can't go to class you just heard from jonathan siri that emory university in atlanta they did virtual school today this is not the kind of environment that is healthy for students and if it means that we pull federal funding so that were not funding with taxpayer dollars anti-semitism i campuses then so be it. >> classes cancelled you have graduation ceremonies being next, this is just a mess did you ever imagine that you would see people on college campuses sometimes they are student sometimes not but chanting support for a terrorist group. >> right and we've all seen the images of the flag of hezbollah being flown by many of these misguided students, hezbollah

has murdered americans, murdered american soldiers these people if you love hezbollah so much then go to gaza and see what it's like because i guarantee you that these ivy league students would not last a minute in gaza they would not last anywhere at the citadel either because my alma mater would not put up with the type of behaviour we are seeing today. >> i understand pull federal funding but there is something bigger happening here right? is that really the solution? does that get to the bottom of what's happening in this country >> i don't think so, i never imagined, i come from charleston south carolina we have one of the most historic jewish communities in the country and we have jewish folks jewish committee members that are fearful to walk out of the house they fear going to class they fear going to work i never imagined in my lifetime in 2024 that anyone would be attacked because of their faith particularly a community that has been attacked for so many

years going back to rbc world war ii everything they have come from and this is where we are today it's culturally it's a major issue and i honestly i'm a parent of two teenage kids and i don't know how we got here for antagonizing and attacking people because of their faith because there jewish i never thought i would see that. >> and sony be blessing at all may be in the same position with teenage kids at home working at colleges and they are wondering what is the future of our colleges and universities in this country final thoughts from you? >> well we are looking at colleges with my kids right now and i will tell you the one that will be most successful coming out of this thing will be the ones that tamp down on bigotry, bigotry includes anti-semitism and i know that schools in the south particularly south carolina are not going to put up with this it would not be tolerated hate speech would not be tolerated those of the kinds of schools that we are looking out for our children and i think

that most parents will after this. >> a lot of people thinking about it as they watch these continue over the country congresswoman good to see you and thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> the applicable fallout from the presumptive but occult nominees from a week that gave us trials and protest and price hikes that are not cooling down [ chanting ]

>> sandra: so you are still paying more at the store. inflation report showing prices taking higher last month with increases in food and energy costs. all of this amid growing tensions on college campuses and the legal trials of former president trump. so how will all of this play out with voters? democratic pollster and former clinton advisor doug schoen and g.o.p. fundraising -- fundraiser noel. doug, do you first. how will this play out? have at it. >> i think it is going to play out ultimately in the short term to joe biden's advantage with the image of donald trump on trial, not able to campaign, not able to be in a visual setting that enhances his candidacy. but longer term, as inflation continues to be an issue, prices at the pump, prices in the

grocery store going up, i ultimately think it's going to work against joe biden and what we know from political history is unrest on campus works against the democratic party, particularly when you have conventions that could be out of control, potentially, in chicago. so longer-term i think it works for us for trump. >> sandra: noel, dig in there. the former president was departing a few moments ago, he chose to say the economy is falling apart at oil prices are up. >> absolutely, and i agree with doug that i think that inflation in the long term is going to -- here is where i disagree. with the trials going on and he can't get out and campaign, this has done nothing but uptick is fundraising. you have seen so many people give to donald trump because of the fact that he cannot be out campaigning, so they feel bad for him and a lot of people feel like these trials are something

they shouldn't be spending money on, they should be spending money on other things so i agree with the inflation hurting tr trump. >> sandra: both presumptive nominees also talking about presidential debates today, listen. >> i don't know if you are going to debate your opponent. >> i am sometime, i don't know when, i'm happy to debate him. >> sandra: okay. now here was the president. >> thursday night or friday night on national television, just tell me where and we will do it at the white house, that would be very comfortable, actually. you tell me where, but we are ready. he is obviously not showing up now. but he said today, oh, i would love to debate. i don't think he'll debate anyone. maybe he will. i'm not sure he has a choice. but that's the story, so here we are. >> sandra: okay, doug, so what is going on here? that howard stern interview with biden, was that planned? >> yeah, i think it was planned.

i heard a degree of tentativeness in biden's tone and voice. donald trump would like a debate tomorrow, anytime, anyplace, anywhere. biden did a good job on the state the state of the union address, but other times, he has appeared confused, and there are a lot of issues he has to answer for. inflation, unrest, and indeed some answers from four years ago as debate that have been proven to be correct. so i think whether we get a debate is still uncertain and if we have them i think it only be one and it will be at the end of the campaign like 1980 between jimmy carter and ronald reagan. but i am still not ready to bet that we get one. >> sandra: noelle, quick thoughts? >> i think he is kicking the can down the road. i think howard stern just got him on the spot and he said it. what i really liked was chris mabasically said let's do this,

let's book this. he had a really quick come back to it. i don't think joe biden is going to be debating donald trump anytime soon. i don't think he can. >> sandra: presidential debates, we are better for them, it is good for the american public to see this. we will see if it happens. biden said he would be happy to do it, you just wonder under what conditions. >> i wouldn't bet on it, sandra. >> sandra: okay, all right, thanks to both of you, good to ssee you. >> thank you. good to see you. >> sandra: thank you for joining us today, great to be with you all. you can catch me and john roberts every weekday at 1:00 p.m. eastern time on "america reports" and don't forget to watch "caboodle live" tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. again, things for joining us now. keep it right here for "the five." ♪ ♪ >> hello, everyone. shanea