of all of our current accounts of all of our current service personnel. and many veterans, too. and yet the government doesn't seem to want to be straight with us about it. i wonder why. incredibly, we learn from the home office that 21,000 people, nearly all men who've come into the united kingdom illegally, have gone missing in the last five years. it is failure upon failure and some good news, too. a private prosecution against the serial shoplifter in south london has resulted in a court prosecution. i guess when the police give up even attempting to deal with shoplifting this is perhaps the way that we have to go. but before all of that, let's get the news with sam francis. >> nigel, thank you very much . >> nigel, thank you very much. and good evening to you. it's just after 7:00. the latest headunes just after 7:00. the latest headlines from the newsroom this houn headlines from the newsroom this hour. the defence secretary has told mps the government cannot

rule out state involvement in the hack at the ministry of defence, but he refused to confirm reports that china was behind it for reasons of national security. >> we can't release further details of the suspected cyber activity behind this incident. however i can confirm to the house that we do have indications that this was the suspected work of a malign actor and we cannot rule out state involvement. this incident is further proof that the uk is facing rising and evolving threats . threats. >> grant shapps also apologised to armed forces personnel whose names, addresses and bank details were potentially compromised in that hack. it's understood 272,000 people may have been affected. he set out an eight point plan to support them and announced a full investigation . varne. meanwhile, investigation. varne. meanwhile, beijing has strongly denied those reports that it's behind the hack, saying the accusations are completely fabricated . and

are completely fabricated. and in scotland, john swinney says he's over the moon to be voted as the scottish parliament's choice to be their next first minister. he was backed by 64 of his colleagues and his name will now be submitted to the king. he replaces humza yousaf, who sent his own official letter to king charles earlier confirming he was stepping down. speaking from the front bench for the final time in the role, mr yousaf said that his heart would forever belong to scotland and next to worcester, where a woman has admitted to being part of a global monkey torture network. holly legresley has posted more than 130 videos and 20 photos of the animals being tortured to onune the animals being tortured to online chat groups. the 37 year old pleaded guilty to separate charges of publishing obscene images and encouraging animal cruelty . stormy daniels has told cruelty. stormy daniels has told the court in the us that donald trump told her that having sex was the only way she was going to get out of a trailer park.

the former adult film star has been revealing intimate details about that alleged encounter with the former president, as she testifies at his hush money trial. she claimed that he wore satin pyjamas when he greeted her at his hotel suite in 2016. before 2006, rather before she was asked to spank him. the former president denies having sex with mrs. daniels, and 34 counts of falsifying business documents. and finally , before documents. and finally, before we hand back to nigel in westminster, more than 2000 football banning orders have been issued to england fans ahead of euro 2024, which kicks off in germany next month . fans off in germany next month. fans who are banned must hand over their passports for the duration of the tournament. it comes as football related arrests in england and wales are at a nine year high. german police say they are working with british officers to plan for a safe event for supporters. those are the latest headlines from the newsroom. i'll be back at eight with another update. until then, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the code on

your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. >> after the show yesterday evening, sky news broke a story, very serious story that there were chinese cyber hackers undoubtedly working for directly or indirectly, the chinese government attempting to hack mod data of up to 270,000 people. they are current serving personnel and veterans from the last few years. they were after their details, including details of their bank accounts. wow. i thought this is a really big, big story. yet what do we get from the government today? repeated attempts to try to play it down here was rishi sunak earlier on today. speaking at the crystal palace academy. >> just explain why you're not naming china there, said the defence secretary will be making a full statement to parliament

later today. >> and more generally, if you look back to our integrated review, i set out a very robust policy towards china, which means that we need to take the powers which we have done to protect ourselves against the risks that china and other countries pose to us. they are a country with fundamentally different values to ours. they're acting in a way that is more authoritarian at home, assertive abroad. that's why, for example, we blocked chinese investment into a sensitive semiconductor semiconductor company last year. again, that's just one of the numerous actions that we've taken to protect this country. and recently, i announced a historic increase in our defence spending . our defence spending. >> no, prime minister, the question wasn't about defence spending . it was about the spending. it was about the chinese government attempting to hack serious details. but i have to tell you, i have no idea what rishi sunak's position on china actually is. it seems to move around with the wind. but it's okay because the prime minister assured us that the defence secretary, grant shapps , would secretary, grant shapps, would tell us all in the house of

commons this afternoon . commons this afternoon. >> this was the work, as i say, of a malign actor who compromised a contract to run a network entirely separate from the mod core system. however as i've said, we cannot at this stage rule out state involvement from elsewhere . from elsewhere. >> well, it was up to john healey, the shadow defence secretary, labour, and he did come out with it absolutely clearly. >> mr deputy speaker, the media have clearly been briefed that china is behind the hack, but the defence secretary only tells us about a malign actor. >> now, the government rightly has a very rigorous system before official accusations or attributions are made . but if attributions are made. but if this data breach is found to be carried out by a hostile state, it would represent a very serious threat to our national security. and the government have been warned . the isc

have been warned. the isc committee confirmed in its china report last year. cyber attacks by hostile states now happen daily, and our wider armed forces community are being targeted . but the committee also targeted. but the committee also found no cross—government china strategy completely inadequate. resourcing and defence intelligence with no systematic record of resources focused on china . china. >> when you look at the way grant shapps dealt with that and the way john healey dealt with that, is it any wonder that the labour party are now more trusted on defence than the conservatives, something historically that would have been very difficult to say at any point during my lifetime. so why can't this government be straight with us about china ? straight with us about china? want to get your thoughts on it? please farage @gbnews for.com. well, i'm joined by sir iain duncan smith, of course , former duncan smith, of course, former leader of the party and mp for chingford and woodford green at ian. what is your party's policy on china ? on china? >> well, first of all, i should

state that i am sanctioned by the chinese government . the chinese government. >> i know, i know your position and i've been hacked regularly and i've been hacked regularly and has my organisation, the inter—parliamentary attacks on china. >> so my view on this is very clearly that i think there is a bit of confliction inside the government. i think the foreign office is very opposed to taking on china because of business and all the other reasons they give. i think in places like defence, they are wanting to name names and to start squaring up to china on this. so so the reality is that our problem starts with the integrated review , which the integrated review, which when rishi sunak was trying to be prime minister he said they were a systemic threat. yep. i agree . when we got the agree. when we got the integrated review refreshed, it turned out that they were in fact an epoch defining challenge , and the brilliant thing about it was we were going to meet that challenge with robust pragmatism. now, that sounds like someone of a scriptwriter of. yes, prime minister had got into the policy . so i've argued into the policy. so i've argued endlessly, you have to proclaim

that they are a threat. they are a threat. they know they're a threat. everybody else knows that the americans know they're a threat. of course, for some reason, i think, you know, they're a threat. i know not calling them a terrorist threat. i mean, they were responsible for covid. you don't get much bigger threat than that. why? >> i go back to this question that i'm going to get to. i think some very interesting answers from the viewers and listeners on why can't they be straight with us? why over this issue? you know, john healey, i mean, john healey, very impressive performance , very, impressive performance, very, very clear about what the problem was about the lack of preparedness. why can't they be straight with us? >> well, clearly, overnight somebody from the mod briefed that they knew that it was more likely than not that it was china. they were the malign actor . and then china. they were the malign actor. and then in the morning, the government got worried that that would be done on the basis they don't have the full facts. so it the truth is, it's almost certainly china , after all, certainly china, after all, china. i think the fbi described china. i think the fbi described china as having the biggest

cyber warfare unit in the world, dwarfing everybody else's, including their own. they are malign . they have a purpose in malign. they have a purpose in life, which is to destroy democracy. human rights and freedom. they are against democracy completely. and they've made it clear from the beginning their purpose in life is to destroy those elements and return the to world autocracy. thatis return the to world autocracy. that is their plan, and we need to take it on. and, you know, i just made the point also that it was two years, nearly two years ago, that the american on air services told us secretly that they had hacked china, had hacked the electoral commission and was hacking a large number of mps. it took us a year and a half to finally come back to the despatch box and accept that it was china that did it. and i think the reason why they don't want to do this, because what follows next must be sanctions. and sanctions mean you are in a stand off with china, and that has to be the case. america's already in that position. we should be in the same.

>> well, you're clear, but your your party leaders are national leaders are not. let's have a look at the technical side of this. i'm joined by professor kevin curran, professor of cyber security at ulster university and group leader for the cyber security and web technologies research group. kevin the company involved, scl, was named by john healey in the house of commons. it seems everything with the mod, from recruitment to dealing with issues like this, is outsourced . does that this, is outsourced. does that actually make sense, or would it just be that the mod would not have the technical skills to look after this data themselves ? look after this data themselves? >> it comes down to cost. usually in the end of course, organisations outsource, especially something like payroll because regulations change all the time . tax codes, change all the time. tax codes, everything else and software can of course make that easy. the question here is whether the military should outsource again to make something what we would

say maybe cost savings. and of course, the mod has been on a cost saving exercise for many years now, and removing a lot of the real estate, but also infrastructure as well. so the main question is can the military, the mod follow what is kind of generally taken, as you know , the rules in ordinary know, the rules in ordinary leading industries as well. but of course, i mean, they used to have of course all of this in—house as well. but so many systems now are being outsourced again. and of course there are so many ways that into systems again. so there's always a worry about the supply chain, the software supply chain, again being one of the weakest links whenever it comes to hackers infiltrating infrastructure . infiltrating infrastructure. >> the big question, professor karen, are there things we can do to stop the chinese being successful with hacking? or is it one of those games where technology just just keeps moving on and it's difficult to keep ahead of the bad guys ? keep ahead of the bad guys? >> it's always a cat and mouse game, but of course it comes down to resources. but of

course, the mod is funded by the taxpayer. so how much? of course do we associate? you know, how much do we allocate to something again to protect and something of course everyone believes they're secure, but of course it takes months for us to discover if someone is inside a system. and of course we have, as ian has said again, that the chinese state sponsored group, the apt 31, as we said, we have 100,000 plus hackers here who get up in the morning and code until they go to bed again, that their mission is to infiltrate the western systems again. and any governments again that they deem worthy of again. so they have allocated huge resources again to doing this again. but they only have to get lucky once as well. the modern systems are incredibly complex again, but we do have auditors. we do have best practice guidelines, of course, and we have to come along later and see. did the third party company again, the scl , did they adhere to best scl, did they adhere to best practice again or you know , were practice again or you know, were you know, were you know, so we

have ways of being able to do that of course. but again it comes down to resources. it comes down to resources. it comes to down how much money can we allocate again. is it is it cost effective for us to outsource our military payroll and other systems as well to third parties? yeah, which are headquartered in different countries, i am yeah, i worry about this outsourcing. >> let's wait and see. there will be an inquiry. let's hope, professor karen, we get some answers and thank you for joining us, ian. again and again, i've talked about capita on this program, outsourcing of recruitment for the army , navy, recruitment for the army, navy, air force, complete disaster. people, people waiting up to six months and giving up the ghost and not bothering, outsourcing does does worry me greatly. let's finish this and move on to ukraine. the chinese embassy have said the so—called cyber attacks by china against the uk are completely fabricated and malicious slanders. we strongly oppose such accusations. china has always firmly fought all forms of cyber attacks according to the law . so there you are in to the law. so there you are in what can i say? absolutely >> i'm bowled over.

>> i'm bowled over. >> quick thought. important. yeah. you're wearing the ukraine flag . you've been very clear flag. you've been very clear from the start that we should support ukraine and allow ukraine to defend herself. yeah lord cameron went a step further than that yesterday. he said we've emptied the coffers and we've emptied the coffers and we've given all this kit to ukraine, some of which is arriving today. and if they want to use british made kit to fire missiles into russia, that's all fine. so it seems to me we've weakened our own position in, in terms of our own material needs, in case of a crisis. and we have provoked you know, the expected reaction from russia doesn't seem a very wise thing to have said. well, i don't know whether thatis said. well, i don't know whether that is policy or whether it was his view, but i have to tell you, he's the foreign secretary, for goodness sake. >> so we have to assume it's policy. but my main point is i'm not quite in the same place here with this as with you on this.

my with this as with you on this. my view is that ukraine has faced the most diabolical attacks from russia into their territory, into their cities. i mean, the devastation in some of the cities i've been out there a number of times is absolutely horrendous. the lives lost, civilians you would call should not be targets, but they have been killed. russia fights with no holds barred . ukraine fights no holds barred. ukraine fights with both hands tied behind its back because it's surrounded by russia. but it can't actually attack russia. and so they've been already doing some of the attacks now more with the drones. but the reality is russia can't just play the war as it wishes. and for ukraine, i understand why there are some strategic targets like power stations , etc, that russia has stations, etc, that russia has been attacking in ukraine, which i think become legitimate targets for ukrainians to target them. they don't target and they won't target civilian targets . won't target civilian targets. there's no question about that. but i think i've talked to enough ukrainians when i was out there, and they're fighting for their lives out there right now .

their lives out there right now. they are. but we need to help them in every way we can. so we think this is important. >> well, it's important in every way, whichever side you come at it from. yeah. i'm not terribly keen for us to get directly involved in. no, no, i don't think with russia. i worry it might do that. ian duncan—smith, as ever, a delight to have you on the program in a moment after the break, we'll just hold on to the break, we'll just hold on to the sides of your armchairs. i mean, can you believe it? can you believe it? the home office have lost 21,000 illegal immigrants . have lost 21,000 illegal immigrants. i'll calm down and come back to that in a couple of minutes.

i asked you, why can't this government be straight with us about china? ryan says because the chinese state owns large parts of our national infrastructure , including water, infrastructure, including water, electricity, railways and steel production . our country has been production. our country has been broken up into little pieces and sold to china. yeah, i used to

work on the london metal exchange in london, an institution that had been going for 125 years. and guess what? we sold it to china. vince says the government is incapable of telling the truth about anything. another viewer says we rely too much on china now and we can't even criticise them. and that is a point of view that if we did put sanctions on, of course it would hurt us very much as well. we've become very dependent on chinese goods . and dependent on chinese goods. and finally, muriel says the tory government is pro—china and has been for a long time, and i suspect , muriel, that you are suspect, muriel, that you are right. okay. here goes a freedom of information request put into the government, released today by the daily mail, reveals that 21,107 foreign nationals who've come into britain claimed refugee status and in almost all cases , been refused have, in the cases, been refused have, in the last five years, gone missing .

last five years, gone missing. gone. missing. gone, gone. where are they ? probably working on are they? probably working on cannabis farms, drug dealing, some form of criminality. i mean, it is just truly astonishing. well, one man who perhaps won't be surprised about this is doctor mike jones, executive director of migration watch and friend of the program are even you surprised by these numbers? >> no, not at all. and you've got to realise the 21,000 figure is actually quite conservative. it's eight months out of date, so that number goes back to september of last year. yeah. so the real number is probably closer to 30,000, maybe even more . more. >> so you're saying that the rate at which people are absconding is going up of coui'se. >> course. >> i mean, again, we know the home office has lost contact with around 5700 asylum seekers who are earmarked to be returned to rwanda. they're only in contact with around 38% of those earmarked to be deported. so again, this comes as no surprise

. i mean, the root cause of the issue is this it's very difficult to deport people. asylum claims go through a merry go round of appeals. if you can't deport people , all can't deport people, all detention centres become full. if the detention centres become full asylum seekers then have to live amongst the general population and, you know they're gone. >> gone now, now they're talking sort of moving on a bit from this but similar theme. they're talking now, now about those that are earmarked for rwanda being put into detention. is that actually happening ? that actually happening? >> well, to some extent, yes , >> well, to some extent, yes, but there's very little capacity in the detention centres at the moment. so detention capacity can, you know, vary. >> 3000 i think is something like that. yeah. >> i mean it is at its lowest, it's below 2000. it's sort of around 3500 at the moment. but it's very it's going to be very difficult to get those people into the detention centres at speed and at scale.

>> well, we've been told that by july there will be planes taking off for rwanda, that the legislation says we can ignore. articles two and three of the human rights act and the prime minister, not for the first time, but the prime minister actually appears to be quite bullish on this issue. what's a migration watch? >> well, only one person has returned to rwanda so far, and that was voluntary. >> and we gave him three grand. >> and we gave him three grand. >> and we gave him three grand. >> and yeah , he received a call >> and yeah, he received a call three grand for doing so. so the scheme is not yet operational. and yes, they've disapplied elements of the human rights act through the safety of rwanda act itself, but they haven't disapplied section four, which allows which essentially allows more appeals to the high courts. and of course, there's clause four in the safety of rwanda act, which allows individuals to appeal deportation based on individual circumstances. the idea of severe, irreversible harm. now, you know, will the bar be set very high as rishi sunak hopes, or will it be set

very high? >> and we are, of course, even if you just apply a bit, we are still signatories to an international treaty, the european convention on human rights, which i would have thought british judges would rule in favour of. >> well, because they haven't disapplied section four of the human rights act, potentially one of the higher courts could declare what's called a rule of incompatibility. now, if that did happen, i'm not saying it will, but if it did, the european court of human rights would have a much stronger case against us because domestic courts have ruled against the government. >> i tell you what, he's not going to solve this problem now. now moving on to another subject. but folks, i have to apologise to you. i do my absolute best on this program to make sure that when i give you facts and figures, i get them right and i hate being wrong, so i apologise. i told you last night that in 2023, a quarter of a million people had come to this country and settled from the indian subcontinent . that

the indian subcontinent. that number was wrong. the official figure from india is 253,000. but we need to add to that 55,000 from pakistan. so it wasn't quarter of a million. it wasn't quarter of a million. it was well over 300,000 worse than itold was well over 300,000 worse than i told you. and mike, this is interesting because we always talk about net migration figures . these are people who've moved from many thousands of miles away, settled in this country in the most astonishing numbers. and i was linking this to some of the scenes we were seeing in inner cities with muslim voters voting in pro gaza. candidate rights. and how have we taken that number of people? i mean, they're not all doctors and computer scientists, are they? >> no, not at all. it's an intentional government policy. this hasn't happened by accident. i mean, a few things happened. first of all, before we left the european union, we had a cap on non—eu workers as the johnson administration removed that cap . the second

removed that cap. the second thing that happened is that the conservative government outsource just the student visas policy to the higher education sector , and there was an sector, and there was an intentional recruitment drive from india and nigeria. and obviously because of cultural differences, differences in family structure and economics, they tend to bring more dependents with them than, say, chinese students and the conservatives did not ban or partially ban dependents from joining them. so the numbers have completely, utterly skyrocketed . it's incredible. skyrocketed. it's incredible. >> now, legal immigration into britain last year was the last big figures we had were over 700,000, let's call it. let's call it three quarters of a million between friends. the next big sets of data are out on may the 23rd, or there or thereabouts. we're expecting a big drop from that massive figure, but still a big number. >> yeah, we're expecting still a big number, but there will be a drop, simply because, you know, suella braverman and this was continued by james cleverly have

partially banned dependence from joining postgraduate students. >> why they were ever coming in the first place is beyond me, but sorry. go on. yeah. >> they've banned dependents from joining care workers. so this is low hanging fruit. so we should expect the numbers to drop. but again that number is still going to be too high. >> it won't be tens of thousands will it. >> no. it's get to tens of thousands. you need a cap with no cap . there's no control. you no cap. there's no control. you need a cap on on skilled visas . need a cap on on skilled visas. you need a cap on student numbers. but of course, the governments aren't partial to that idea. >> i suspect the last week of this month will be dominated by whatever those figures are. so we'll see you again very, very soon. in a moment, i'm going to go back to what cameron has said about our weapons going to ukraine being used to fire at the russian mainland. i wonder, is this man who himself, as prime minister, was a warmonger. he took us to war in libya, got rid of the leader, led to the birth of isis . rid of the leader, led to the birth of isis. is he taking us

down? a very, very dangerous route. we'll debate

as is so often the case, i see stories that i think are fantastically good for us. stories i think could be very bad for us. and i always marvel that they somehow aren't on diary with the rest of the media. and whilst this story has been reported, i don't think there's been enough emphasis on it. our revered foreign secretary, lord david cameron, said this yesterday we will give £3 billion every year for as long as is necessary. this is to ukraine. we vie really just emptied all we can in terms of giving equipment. so what he's saying is we've really got rid of everything. we have virtually no stocks of artillery shells or much other kit and ammunition. and then he says ukraine

absolutely has the right to strike back at russia . so what strike back at russia. so what he's saying is he's very happy for british made missiles to go to ukraine and to be used to attack targets on russian soil. i thought the object of the exercise was for us to give defensive help to ukraine, not offensive help to ukraine. he has poked the russian bear with a stick and, perhaps unsurprising , hinckley, the unsurprising, hinckley, the russian foreign ministry has said . in response to ukrainian said. in response to ukrainian attacks on russian territory with british weapons , any with british weapons, any british military facilities and equipment on the territory of ukraine and abroad will be targets . what is cameron up to? targets. what is cameron up to? i think this is complete and utter madness. i'm joined by james gazer , former nato james gazer, former nato spokesman and friend of this

program . james, what do we know program. james, what do we know about russia? is that if you do poke it with a stick, it will always respond. i was fascinated to see george robertson, the former secretary—general of nato , the other day, very much taking my line that the expansion of european union, i believe nato two, has directly led to the ukraine war. what is our mission in ukraine? are we there to help them defend themselves, or are we happy for this kit to be used to fire off at power stations or other military facilities, perhaps in russia ? what's the brief? russia? what's the brief? >> well, nigel, very good to see you again, the way i see it, with all great respect to george , this is not a binary choice, as i see it, i'd much rather our storm shadows were strapped to the underside of a ukrainian fighterjet the underside of a ukrainian fighter jet than languishing the underside of a ukrainian fighterjet than languishing in a in a bunker somewhere in wiltshire, under the care of the

raf. >> but fine. that's your personal position and we differ on this. i think what we do differ on this, but isn't the point i'm making the fundamental one that we have been told, our taxpayers have been told, and american taxpayers too, have been told that we're doing this to help ukraine defend itself. this turns defence into offence. >> now, i refute that position entirely, if you'll forgive me , entirely, if you'll forgive me, i do. >> we love free speech here. no. >> we love free speech here. no. >> ultimately , the point is that >> ultimately, the point is that arming, your your allies enemy is a form of defence. so first of all, it is defence of our selves because it's a lot less expensive, a lot less costly in all sorts of metrics by comparison to the alternative. and and, and secondly, you know, the fact that we are supplying to ukraine, it is up to the ukrainians to decide how they wish to use what is what is by definition, therefore, a sovereign capability. just because we manufactured these these armaments, this material

doesn't give us a right to specify how it is used, which is pretty much no, no, no, no, he said no, no. >> the foreign secretary is delighted for it to be used in that way. he made it very clear in his statement, well, he actually said that it was up to the ukrainians to decide. >> they have been attacked and it is up to them to be defending themselves. are we are we not in danger of getting ourselves a little bit closer to a potential conflict between us and russia? i, i don't agree with this point of view . this is in fact, as of view. this is in fact, as lord cameron said, you know, a seminal moment in geopolitics, we must spend more on our defence. we do not. i agree with that. >> absolutely. and i wonder why the pledge for 2.5% is until 2030. >> well, that's because the government are going to be in power for the next five minutes. so it's really irrelevant how long they propose. >> that's a fair point. another seminal moment in geopolitics was cameron's main niac decision, with the support of

the french, with the americans kind of backing up, the french, with the americans kind of backing up , to take out kind of backing up, to take out gaddafi in libya, took out gaddafi. i didn't even exist. but it grew into that vacuum that was the moment the millions started crossing the mediterranean and causing all the political problems that we're now seeing. i mean, is this man fit, given his track record, to be our foreign secretary? >> i think we can look forward to a change of government very shortly. i know i and this problem will go away. >> well, yeah, but between now, the next six months, goodness knows what damage he might do . knows what damage he might do. >> well, i mean, let's, the situation in libya isn't the sole cause of migration, and it's not the sole cause of migration to the uk. >> i tell you what, when gaddafi was still alive, he did say, take me out and 5 million will come to you. >> he did, but he was also a tyrant. that led to a great number of deaths in his own nafion number of deaths in his own nation state. >> i'm not saying he was a good guy or anything like that. i'm not even i'm not going to argue for a moment. saddam hussein was

a good guy. i just worry that we've been getting ourselves involved in a series of wars, that have ended up with very negative consequences and huge numbers of civilian deaths, especially in iraq. and i just wonder whether we're having sort of the neocon hawk like cameron makes sense. and i just wonder whether we're not whether that statement he made wasn't wholly unnecessary , that we have to unnecessary, that we have to understand the paranoia of russia , given its history. russia, given its history. >> well, i'd rather a neocon hawk than a neo tsar, to be perfectly frank, just about to do another few years after his rubber stamp parliament lets him go forth and conquer, i, you know , the you've conflated know, the you've conflated a number of issues there. if you'll forgive me , well, it is you'll forgive me, well, it is important. >> i'm talking about the breadth of our foreign policy , our use of our foreign policy, our use of our foreign policy, our use of the military over the last 20 years. and that cameron has been very much a part of all of that. and i just worry that he's the wrong man, i my personal view is

that his actions in libya were half hearted and without , half hearted and without, without a plan for the future , without a plan for the future, which which is not the first time this nation has done such a thing in my lifetime. but quite apart from that, the situation in ukraine is, is it is quite literally a seminal moment for europe , back down now or, or europe, back down now or, or perhaps even you talked about trump a moment ago , perhaps even trump a moment ago, perhaps even see less support from the us or indeed a cessation of support. and we will see the shape of europe change. >> i tell you what, i suspect. if trump had been in the white house they wouldn't have invaded in the first place. and i do believe that very strongly, and trump wants a negotiated settlement. >> yes. but a negotiated settlement means defeat for the ukrainians. >> do you actually think do you actually do you really, honestly and truthfully think that crimea is going back to ukraine? >> i believe they have a right to bring back their own country. and i believe a negotiated settlement and the imposition of

a piece. i mean, i served in bosnia and in position of peace thatis bosnia and in position of peace that is cracking at the seams . that is cracking at the seams. i've served in iraq and in position of peace that's cracking at the seams. i've served in afghanistan. i wouldn't go so far as saying the imposition of peace, but an imposition of peace, but an imposition of peace, but an imposition of something that has failed. absolutely. because of donald trump's decision carried out by biden. >> no, no no no no, that's absolute nonsense. biden made that decision unilaterally without even telling us he was going to do it. >> well, that might be the case because he was in power at that point in time, but it was a decision that had been already made. >> as i understand they were down to three. we could argue that forever. indeed james, i think you and i think i agree with you on many things. i think on this i think the language that was used was irresponsible. well, good to see you. >> likewise, the what the farage moments of the day one i think is a very good thing. >> one, a very, very bad thing, quite extraordinary to see that yesterday at auschwitz there was a commemorative march and service. and this, of course , service. and this, of course, was to remember the horrors of what happened at that factory of death during world war two, but

also to remember those, not just those that were killed on october the 7th, but of course, the 90 or so that are still being held hostage in shocking, shocking conditions . and shocking conditions. and pro—palestinian protesters turn up outside auschwitz, putting out leaflets flying the palestinian flag. frankly, folks, i think that is completely and utterly sick . completely and utterly sick. now, i have talked to you on this program a couple of times about the world health organisation. people have absolutely no faith in whatsoever with their annual budget of $7 billion every year. and who did their best to hide the true causes of covid. they have, as i've said this before to you, i'm going to say it again. scheduled for the end of may, they have a conference at which they want us to sign up to a global pandemic treaty that would give them the right not only to tell to us lock down the

next time they deem a pandemic, but also to take 20% of our stocks of any medicines or vaccines that we have to spread around the world. i mean, it is such a loss of national sovereignty as to be untrue. so far, it would appear that the british government is going to sign up to this. interestingly last night, senator ron johnson, republican, managed to get all 49 republican senators to write to biden to say, do not sign this treaty. it would be a dreadful abrogation of sovereignty. this is due to happen at the end of may. that timetable may slip for a month or two, but be in no doubt of the ambitions of a who. take a huge amount of power and remember, we can't vote for them to go in, and we can't vote to get rid of them either. and i really hope that the british government wakes up to this, and i'm sure when this story gets a wider audience in this country, people will be very, very strongly opposed to it in a

moment. well, interesting isn't it ? you know, serial it? you know, serial shoplifters, video evidence and still the metropolitan police won't turn up and yet, the first time there's been a successful private prosecution against the shoplifter, maybe if the police have given up, what we're going to have

it's that tric awards time of the year. yes, i am, of course, on that short list for long list, actually, to be news presenter of the year. we won it last year. so if you want to vote for me, you can go to gbnews.com if not, you know you will find there a qr code that you can download. now there are other gb news presenters in on this, but i'm not going to advertise them even though i you know, i do think camilla and others are doing a wonderful job, but there it is. there's the qr code gb news. com please vote for me now. it is

astonishing that shoplifting, even serious serial shoplifting. and in this case, a man called david hanson, a 44 year old with a 105 previous convictions, including 33 burglaries. why this man is even walking the streets, i don't know, but he goesin streets, i don't know, but he goes in to marks and spencer's on streatham hill. he's caught stealing on cctv. it's reported to the metropolitan police, who decide despite clear video evidence, not to prosecute. so it all comes down to tmi, which is run by david mckelvie. david just to begin with, tell us who tmi are and how do you get your funding ? funding? >> term.i, nigel is a group of retired detectives, very experienced career detectives, we've been around since two

thousand and seven, when i retired from the police in 2010, we began work and we are the biggest prosecutor, private prosecutor in the uk with over 1500 private prosecutions. we started originally doing prosecutions for fake goods , prosecutions for fake goods, which we still do, and about, five years ago we started prosecuting for retail crime as well. pickpockets and shoplifters. but this is the first burglary prosecution we've, we've brought. >> no, i look, you know, as you say, senior police officers retired like yourself, doing a fantastic job, but it doesn't just happen. do you raise charitable donations ? as you charitable donations? as you know? you know who funds the organisation . organisation. >> so, basically, at the end of a case, you are entitled to recover your costs of a case, you very rarely cover your costs, but you can recover some costs, but you can recover some costs towards the prosecution, and so we, we try and recover our costs where we can, but because we are the only private prosecutor , we incorporate the prosecutor, we incorporate the cost of the, the actual

prosecutions within the hourly rate that we charge to the businesses that we operate within. okay, okay, okay. >> well, well done with a successful prosecution , and i successful prosecution, and i think it's terrific what you're doing. and i have to say, i think it's very necessary what you're doing, but can you explain to me how you got a guy here with 105 previous convictions and so known , very convictions and so known, very well known to the metropolitan police? clear video evidence. why don't they. have they given up on shoplifting ? up on shoplifting? >> no. i mean, the thing with this, nigel, is this wasn't shoplifting. this was a burglary or two. two of the offences were actual burglaries. he broke into the into marks and spencers in streatham overnight . when the streatham overnight. when the shop was closed, he broke a window in the shop and broke it, and so i mean effectively so, so actually then okay so actually this is far worse than shoplifting and still the met police don't act. >> why? >> why?

>> there's all sorts of reasons, nigel. i mean, when we first called them, obviously you're relying on the fact that there are, response, officers available to attend. they are run from pillar to post as you're, you know, aware, dealing with knife crime and other crimes, and so they're not always what, like hate crimes? >> you mean hate crimes? >> you mean hate crimes? >> yes. and obviously, once it gets reported as a crime , it gets reported as a crime, it goes into what i used to call the crime desk. i used to run when , when i was a dsd and dci when, when i was a dsd and dci and a police officer will then make a decision whether to screen the crime for in investigation or screen it out. in this case, they decided to screen it out, now, there's all sorts of reasons that could be, but the decision to screen it out was wrong, and, and my, my team , the detectives on the team, the detectives on the ground from tmi, had they knew who he was because we are there, you know, on a regular basis. we know all of the criminals, as soon as we saw the cctv, we recognised him. we immediately knew where he would be because

of his haunts. we went, found him, arrested him. he admitted the offences on on, body worn video. and at that stage, we told the police we had the evidence. they chose not to prosecute. we chose to prosecute. we chose to prosecute. and we prosecuted him as a private prosecutor . as a private prosecutor. >> well well done. you finally, david, advice , please let us say david, advice, please let us say one of our viewers tomorrow is in a supermarket and see somebody filling up a bag with joints of meat or whatever it is, and leaving the store without paying. should they intervene , or is that has that intervene, or is that has that now become a dangerous thing to do , i would not intervene. no do, i would not intervene. no i mean, you know, too often we see, weapons being produced, and violence. and in this case, you know , the store manager tried to know, the store manager tried to intervene and was assaulted. so it's our our teams are trained , it's our our teams are trained, and, are experienced to deal with this type of thing . so it's with this type of thing. so it's not for the general public to get involved in, in rolling around the floor with a

shoplifter and the public. please don't turn up. you're fighting with some of the 30, 40 minutes. it's exhausting. >> i'm sure. david mckelvie that is good advice. although i'm sure the instincts of many of our viewers would be. they'd like to intervene anyway. well done on that prosecution. great piece of work, and thank you very much indeed. and jacob rees—mogg joins me . i mean, i rees—mogg joins me. i mean, i just find it astonishing that, i mean , i, i didn't have the full mean, i, i didn't have the full details of this. i mean, i'd taken it to be shoplifting, but it was more serious than that . it was more serious than that. >> this is going on. this is actually what i'm going to be talking about, because we've had the local election results and people just feel that the state doesn't have a grip and isn't on the subject's side. and this is a classic example. all the evidence was there. the private prosecution was successful. and yet they went to the police and nothing was done on a serious burglary entry. >> and it's astonishing. >> and it's astonishing. >> and it's astonishing. >> and what are the police

doing? >> well, i'll tell you. the met police said it was working to establish what happened over the store burglary and was working with retailers to identify what matters to them, what matters to them, including the safety of shop based workers and shoplifting. i mean, this is this is the sort of junk you get. >> i know we've got to read out these statements, but why can't they put them in normal english and say , we bungled? we're very and say, we bungled? we're very sorry. we made a mistake. someone has blundered . someone has blundered. >> actually, actually, if they said that, we might have some degree of respect for. >> that's right, that's right. whereas they put out this awful waffle that no normal person uses language like that. and it's the dishonesty of spin . i it's the dishonesty of spin. i mean, i'm afraid we've done a bit of this on saying that the election results are indicating a hung parliament. well they were not. >> i had trevor kavanagh in last night who tried to be a bit upbeatin night who tried to be a bit upbeat in his sun column yesterday from a conservative perspective, but he did admit on air that it was wishful thinking, it was wishful thinking, it was wishful thinking and you don't want to

do this. >> the bureaucracy does it, politicians do it. we just need to be saying things to the pubuc to be saying things to the public that we believe to be true. it doesn't mean we're not sometimes wrong. of course that happens, but that when you say them, we're worried about what people are, what matters to people. no they're not. if they were worried about that, they would have arrested this chap. they'd have prosecuted him. it would all have gone ahead. >> quite. and jacob rishi survives and rishi survives. >> yes, we've got to do something. we can't just look at these results and say it's mid—term blues. they were really bad . if we just sit here, we are bad. if we just sit here, we are heading towards a an election defeat of some size. we need to be showing people that we're on their side. we support our own voters. >> maybe. rishi i'll pull it out of the bag. i mean, but yes, i'm not so sure that's enough from me . it's the mogg in a moment. me. it's the mogg in a moment. but first, the weather with alex burkill. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boiler dollars. sponsors of weather on gb news.

>> good evening. here's your latest gb news, weather update brought to you by the met office. whilst there will be a little bit of rain around and also some patches of mist and fog tonight, for many, there's going to be plenty of fine weather through the next few days because of a large area of high pressure that's dominating the story across the uk. this means it's going to stay largely settled through the end of today, and overnight does mean we will see a few patches of mist and fog, particularly towards the west, but also some cloud drifting in from the north sea further east as well. a dry night for most of us and temperatures not dropping a huge amount, many areas staying in high single figures or low double digits. so not a particularly chilly start to the day on wednesday. in fact, a fairly mild one and quite a bright one for some of us, though it won't be wall to wall blue skies. not at all. there will be quite a bit of cloud at times, albeit it does look like a brighter, sunnier day than today. the greatest chance of seeing any rain will be towards the far north—west here across parts of northwest scotland,

perhaps northwest northern ireland, some outbreaks of rain are quite possible. temperatures may be similar or a touch higher than today, but with a bit more sunshine around it should feel a little bit warmer. the high pressure sticks with us as we go through the end of the week, and so we're going to see more fine weather for much of the uk, although towards the far north northwest here there may be a little bit more rain at times. and elsewhere the odd shower can't be ruled out, but we should also see a good deal of sunshine, particularly as we head towards the weekend. largely sunny skies on saturday, and by then temperatures likely to rise to the low to mid 20s. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar for sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg , on state of the jacob rees—mogg, on state of the nation. tonight, for the first time since the conservatives dismal performance at the local

elections last week, i will be giving my unadulterated views on our lack of vision. is it time we stood for something ? and that we stood for something? and that means conservative values. the communist people's republic of china is the prime suspect behind a data breach at the ministry of defence, with thousands of personal details at risk. but surely this shows it's time to recognise we have entered cold war two amidst the burgeoning sectarianism in british politics. the muslim vote group has issued a list of 18 demands to keir starmer. is britain descending into theocratic politics? plus we are long overdue for the commercial success that is sit down with sitwell. william sitwell emerges from the haze of the rail strikes and the incompetence of the overly subsidised rail bosses. state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my most incisive and pretty theatrical panel this evening. pr

consultant and former labour