on getting answers. a popular bay area bakery gets rid of tipping and raises prices. it's a bold move as customers push back against tipping. we'll explore this and other changes

on the food and restaurant scene, and a new setback to san francisco's downtown recovery. google is getting out of the waterfront office tower. it's leased since 2018. why? and could a tax overhaul help keep businesses downtown? but first, as college students across the country call on their universities to divest from israel, what does that really mean? you're watching, getting answers. i'm kristen sze. thanks for joining us today. hundreds of pro-palestinian protesters at uc berkeley continue to hold their encampment at sproul plaza . >> pienta people in the people free the land. justice is our demand. >> justice is our demand. >> this was video from yesterday . they and students from ucla to columbia have a common main demand that their universities divest from israel over its war in gaza. but what exactly does that mean? could universities do it when have they done it

before? and is it impactful as a way to influence policy? joining us live now to help us understand what the protesters are really calling for. chris marsicano, assistant professor of educational studies at public policy at davidson college in north carolina, welcome, professor marsicano, thank you so much for having me. >> kristen. it's an honor to be here. >> no honor is all ours, by the way, around here, we usually refer to davidson college as just steph curry's ama mater, uh. >> understandably so. he's an icon. why wouldn't you refer to davidson as stuff? right. >> exactly. all right. having established that, could you help us understand what divestment is and why students are demanding it? >> sure. so students are really asking for three things. the first is divestment from weapons manufacturers. the second is divestment from israeli businesses, and the third is divestment from those businesses that do business with israeli businesses. and the first two like, let's say they got their universities to do those things.

>> what comes of that? >> so these universities have very large endowments. you're talking about 50, 50 billion with harvard, 40 billion with with yale, 30 billion with an over 30 billion with stanford. but that effectively means is having those university endowments that get returns, just like a retirement account would, and funnel those returns into the operating budget of the university out of investing in those companies, basically selling off the shares they have in those companies or the funds they have that include those companies, and then putting that money towards some other investment. >> okay, so university does have divested over major issues in the past in history, right. can you tell us about a few of them and looking at whether they were successful in changing anything? >> sure. 30 years ago, two weeks ago, nelson mandela was elected president of south africa, thereby functionally ending the apartheid regime. ten years prior, though, students were across the country pushing for divestment from those companies that did business in south

africa. we've also seen a more recent examples with stanford right in your backyard divesting from fossil fuels not long ago. so there have been case studies where schools have divested in the past, but it's a little more complicated today. our our investment system, our financial global financial system is much more complicated. the way that universities invest is not as simple as they did. certainly in the apartheid era. so it's much harder to achieve the goal of divestment in 2024. >> right? i think part of the problem also is universities are not generally very transparent about it. right. what's in their funds, what do they have in holdings and the law doesn't require them to disclose it. right. even public universities. >> that's absolutely right. universities tend not to disclose these things. and other than some broad strokes, big buckets of investments that they will announce in their form 990, which is the sort of nonprofit tax form there's not a lot of

reason for institutions, legally at least, to produce their their investments and how they're doing that, which makes a lot of sense. if you've got a stock tip, you don't necessarily share it with everybody else. and that's what universities are basically doing. they are competing with each other. and so there's not a lot of incentive to give everybody their their game film or their strategy. >> i see that makes sense. i mean, i guess you can say student pressure is one incentive to do it. right. and i know some universities have promised that. i think brown university struck a deal for the students to take down their encampment. and then i guess in the fall, they're going to meet and try to be more transparent about their investments. and also consider holding a vote on divestment and i also read that university of minnesota actually divulged this. they said about one fifth of 1% of their endowment is in israeli companies or u.s. defense contractors and related public trading companies. so that's actually really a tiny amount. i mean, you see all this cover and, you know, this is like the main demand, but really as a

percentage of the investment, it's not very much. >> right. and most universities, at least the universities like brown or berkeley or stanford, places that have these massive endowments are no longer directly investing in companies, at least as a major part of their strategy. brown's a great example. less than 10% of brown's investments in its endowment are going to direct investments. owning specific shares of companies. most of the funds now are in index funds or private equity or real estate trusts. makes it really hard to disentangle what money is going where. but brown's a really interesting case study because the deal only includes divesting from 11 companies at least that's what the report that the deal is based off of suggests. and those 11 companies are all defense manufacturers. >> interesting. but you're right. i mean, it's harder to divest from a bucket as opposed to one single individual stock because there are other things in that bucket you might like and have good reasons to want to keep. but also, let's talk about why this seems different,

because you talked about how universities have made divestments before, whether it's apartheid or, you know, climate fossil fuels, but are those easier in that there's more consensus around? yeah, we don't like those things. we don't. we want to take our money out of those things. and this is more politically charged and divided. does that also complicate the picture? >> absolutely. by the time that students were pushing for divestment from the apartheid regime in south africa, there was worldwide. there was a worldwide global political movement against apartheid. that's not exactly the case today. depending on who you talk to, they could be pro-israel or pro gaza, uh, pro palestine and so that that division in our society and that division across the world makes divestment harder. it's also just more complicated from a functionality standpoint. the way that we invest today, the way that universities invest today is just more complicated. and it's harder to know who what companies you have are doing business in israel at any given

time, and what companies they contract to do business in israel and in given time. so it's a much more difficult demand than what we saw with divestment in south africa. beyond just divesting from companies, i hear some of the protesters are also demanding that their universities stop doing research collaborations, if you will, things like that with israeli institutions or companies. >> is that a different level of challenge? because i'm hearing some universities push back and say, that's something academic freedom. >> absolutely. i mean, one of the one of the, the, the hallmarks of the american university system is academic freedom. i would argue that free speech on college campuses leads to better research, leads to better teaching, leads to better outcomes for us all. it's kind of hard for universities to claim free speech and academic freedom, and then shut down student protests, though, so it's definitely worth watching as we continue to move on into the late spring and summer, when graduation ceremonies are about to begin. >> finally, what advice or considerations would you give to

university administrators who are facing the pressure from students, but also of course, facing pressure from some alumni and from, you know, donors and political leaders? >> a university president may be one of the world's hardest jobs. you have many stakeholders that you please, and you're not going to make everyone happy. by and large, universities have a responsibility to do what universities do best, which is push forward the frontiers of science, educate the next generation and build the next generation of leaders and build their civic capacity as students are protesting. that shows a pretty good example of students taking that civic capacity role very seriously. they want to say in the future, and i think we should support that, chris marsicano, assistant professor of educational studies and public policy at steph curry's ama mater. >> i mean, davidson college. >> thank it. fun fact steph curry and i were actually classmates, we were both in the class of ten before he graduated in the class of 2022. wow

>> okay. he was a good student, right? >> oh, fantastic student. fantastic student. i wish i could i wish i had dirt to tell you, but i just don't. he was that great of a guy when he was at davidson. >> okay, we're going to have you back on again. and this time just to talk about steph curry back in his college days. >> i would love that. thank you so much. >> coming up, how much we pay for dining out is about to change with a ban on service lk to the golden gatefect, we'll restaurant association about

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tipping pressure? joining us live now to talk about these issues and more is lori thomas, executive director of the golden gate restaurant association. hi, lori. hi >> thanks for having me. yeah, a lot to talk about. >> sb 478, i think. right takes effect july 1st. banning service fees. explain what those are and the history of these fees. >> yeah. so, so service fees are something extra you would see at the bottom of a menu. and then on the bottom of your bill at a restaurant usually. and years ago when we were kids, they would have things like a large party auto gratuity fee, like a 20% fee that would go to tip out the or to pay the staff, so those have existed for decades. i'm 57 years old and they were around ever since i was a kid, many folks continue to use that type of a service fee, particularly after the pandemic, to get away from a traditional tip model where the customer writes in the tip or types in

the tip, the service fee goes to the business and then the business, most recently has used those types of fees to say, pay their employees both front of house and back of house, a higher wage, another type of a service fee that you see usually in cities like san francisco or other urban cities that have mandated ordinances that require employees to employers to spend, say, on health care, you'll see, like a 3 to 6% service fee at the bottom of a menu in san francisco, for sure, because we are one of the only places that has such a requirement. >> is that the same as the living wage? by the way, know a living wage is completely different, but to just be clear, we have a minimum wage in san francisco that is higher than the state's minimum wage. >> it's currently $18.07 an hour. and july 1st, that will go up to $18 and $0.67 an hour. >> can i just ask you, like, you know, why have restaurants employed the service fees as

opposed to just making maybe the cost of their menu items a little higher, because that's what they're going to have to do now, right? >> that's correct. they'll have to either incur. well, the way that we read the attorney general's faqs, the frequently asked questions that were released, about an hour and a half two hours ago today, is that everything will have to be. and this is not just for restaurants. this is for every industry in california. will have to be included into the base price of the menu item, say, a salad for $10. uh- would have to incorporate any extra fees other than a tip or a carriage fee, which is which is what a delivery cost is for, say, a delivery, service. i will say that the third party, delivery platforms can still list whatever fees they want based on another prior law. they reference that in the faqs. okay. so what? why the concern? the concern is that, you know,

it's psychological that the consumers will see a much higher, you know, item for that salad. and and pull back on their desire to spend, so from the restaurants perspective, i can see that's worrisome from for the diners, the customer's perspective, though, it does get rid of some confusion and surprises, which is good, right? because it's always the surprises that lead to bad reviews. >> yeah, we never want bad yelp reviews, it it always should be clearly listed on the menu. so there, you know, the intent from the business should never be to conceal or hide the fee. that's why there was some confusion over this law when it first was reported on, back in october, because restaurants in california were never allowed to hide a fee, it always had to be listed on the menu. now, do consumers say now that they're preferring it to be in the item

price? a lot of them do. that is definitely the case. and we hope that people will keep spending. but there are, there's a lot of thought that people will, for at least for a while, have sticker shock. what it'll also do perhaps, is have those folks that move to what they thought was a more fair and equitable model, where they take the revenue in and then they raise the hourly rates higher. and in the kitchen, as well as the rest of the non-management staff, that, that that will go back to a traditional tipping model because a traditional tipping model is allowed. >> right? right. speaking of tipping, i, i want to ask you, you know, there's been a lot of pushback against tipping, which some people view as having gotten out of control since the pandemic, especially with those automatic menus where you pay. right. it's like automatic choose 18, 20 or 25% tip and you're thinking, wait, i didn't get service, so given that one

popular bakery in san mateo called backhouse actually, decided to get rid of tipping, and they're making that very clear on the website. instagram. we're getting rid of tipping tplus, but in return, what they're doing is raising menu prices by, i think 11, talk about this approach. i think it's unusual. >> well, i will say first that they are not a member. they're down in the south bay. so i don't, i don't want to, but have you seen this that they're a member. but, you know, our members are are more traditional restaurant points where, you know, the classic service model where you have a host, a busser, a server, a bartender, staff, right. running food out to you where you have a lot of folks giving a dine in, sit down service or bringing food out to you doing other stuff, that those are more our members, you know, the you walk up, you order a coffee and you tip thing, you know, we'll we'll see, we'll see

if that if that works for that business. i think the disappointing thing with this bill is that, it's taking away levers that businesses have to track things differently to pay their staff how they thought was a more fair model, but and the concern is, will people pull back because they're like, in the case of a person that had, say, a 20% service model, will they now say, wow, like 20% increase? i can't afford that. right. because it's front and center, so that is possible. and that is the concern of all of our membership that we've talked to and other folks in la and san diego and santa barbara and northern california, there's also confusion as to whether this will apply to, say, a contracted menu, i sent an email to the attorney general's office this afternoon and said, could you clarify, because our vendors always put surcharges on whatever is sold to us in the

restaurants for delivery for fuel surcharge? and what about you're going to we're going to like have a wedding. right. you and i are going to have a wedding. and we usually do a contract. and there's all these things that go into a contract. is that going to be allowed? so there still needs to be some more clarity. and i also don't think, you know, that this is, i think there's still and we hope some thought to clarity menus were never mentioned on that. bill, if you speak to some of the bill's sponsors, you will see that they maybe didn't intend it to take away fully listed, service charges, for sure. we don't want anything hidden. we don't want people not to know what they're doing until they get hours into a purchase decision. but, you know, we've always advocated and said clearly list any service charges on your menu where the customer can see it. >> laurie thomas, i really appreciate you coming on to talk about, you know, some of the concerns from the restaurant industry with regard to some of these rule changes. you're the executive director of the golden gate restaurant association. thank you, thank you. a major

office complex in downtown san francisco is losing a major tenant again. we'll examine the impact of google's move and the current state

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the fully-electric audi q4 e-tron. get exceptional offers at your local audi dealer. losing a major tenant. the san francisco chronicle is reporting google is leaving its office space at one market plaza next year. joining us live to talk about her scoop chronicle reporter laura waxman. hi, laura. good to see you. >> hi, kristen. nice to see you. yeah. >> hey, you were first to report this, by the way, which office building is google leaving exactly? and where is it? what's its significance? >> so this is one market plaza. it's a three building office complex at the waterfront. so it has stunning views of the bay. and it's one of those buildings that's considered a trophy building in san francisco. so the best quality high caliber and office. >> right. because it's at the

foot of market there. right? it's you're right. it's got a commanding presence. how much office space are we talking about and how many people i mean, this is not layoffs, right? they're just putting them elsewhere or what's happening. >> so. correct. so given that google has over 1,000,000ft■!s f office space in san francisco, this is a small office. it's 300,000ft■!s. but, you know, in the context of what's going on in the city with many companies giving up space, it really ds to this vacant space that we have this glut of vacant space. so you know, it's a it's a smallish office. they're consolidating their workforce. they have multiple other offices in the city and that's their plan for now. >> right. because they said, quote, this is from your article that they are committed to our long term presence in san francisco. i'm wondering how they will do that, maintain their long term presence when they're pulling back like this. >> and i think what this shows, that's a great question. i think what this shows is that a lot of companies are still figuring it out. so we've seen many companies give up space, but

there are so many more like google, one of the biggest tech companies in the world, that still hasn't quite made its decision yet of how much space will be occupy moving forward with work from home, with people not coming in at the same rate that they used to. >> right? right. because a lot of people are still working from home, right? so you don't need as much space. i've been into that space before, by the way, and had lunch there once. it's beautiful. well, okay. so we'll see. right. if they find another tenant, they get out what next april, next year? they got one year to find a tenant. >> that's right. so the building is still about 90% occupied, which is high. yeah. but you know, google lease will be a chunk of space that'll be vacant . and visa, which was also a huge tenant in that building has already left. they moved to mission rock. they've also given up a big block of space. so vacancy in the building is growing. >> okay. well a business tax overhaul could be up for a vote this november in san francisco. and its supporters say it could bring workers back to the office, which, of course, is part of the problem. right? as far as the real estate spaces tell us, is that a big deal?

>> it's a huge deal, especially for san francisco, which has seen, you know, business taxes increase in recent years. and is known to have a very complicated business tax structure. so the city right now is, you know, everyone's kind of putting their heads together. this is a proposal that is supported, it seems, across the aisle. we'll see because this has just been introduced, but this should make a dent. although some people do say it doesn't go far enough because it does raise taxes for some of those middle sized businesses. so the large ones will see their rates, you know, kind of spread out and decreased. and then the middle sized businesses will see increases, right. >> but the middle ones, i think some of the ones i'm thinking of are in retail and biotech, i mean, you want them to i mean, that could hurt downtown, right? >> if they're impacted, i imagine it's really hard to strike that balance. right. it's like the small businesses have been struggling in the wake of the pandemic. they're still getting back on their feet. they have a lot of debt and the big businesses are the ones that are bringing in the huge tax dollars. so how do we how do we

kind of keep everybody, i guess, happy and at the table. >> i know that's the struggle downtown, but meanwhile there's good news on the other side of the city, the west side, right around stonestown mall. exciting stuff happening there. tell us about it. >> glad you brought that up. it's nice to talk about good news in the city. so there's actually a retail center on the south side of san francisco that's not only flourishing, but will also move ahead as a redevelopment plan. so tomorrow the planning commission is voting on the stonestown mall redevelopment by brookfield. and that plan is to bring over 2000 new homes to the stonestown mall, redevelop it, make it kind of an open air retail plaza, you know, with housing and transit and everything. and that's one of the very few mega projects that's actually moving forward in the wake of the pandemic. >> yeah, that area is hopping. look, we have 20 more seconds, so we don't really have time to get into. i know you also reported on something exciting in hayes valley, a multi-generation all tech campus. we'll talk about that another time. but laura waxman, it's always great to have you on. you always got great

information for us. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you. and remember, abc7 news is streaming 24 over seven. get the abc7 bay area

of experts from around the bay area. world news tonight with david muir is next. tonight, several breaking stories as we come on the air. tornadoes touching down across several states. and the threat right now across multiple states. ginger will take us through it. also breaking at this hour. the move just moments ago to try to oust house speaker mike johnson. the vote, and how this we