and that is tonight's "reidout". stay with msnbc for special coverage of the drum trial. rachel maddow joins alex wagner and 9:00 p.m. eastern. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight on "all in" --

>> i relish the day i get to face him and speak my truth. >> stormy daniels takes the stand, telling the jury what happened with donald trump. >> the door to the hotel opens and what is donald trump wearing? >> silky pajamas. >> and how she was paid for her silence. >> what was illegal was the hush money. if i had not signed the nda, he would not have been indicted. >> tonight, the impact of her testimony on the case. >> we are talking about a very, very colorful witness. >> and what the testimony says about the defendant. >> this is a man who always felt entitled to have his way with women. >> lisa rubin and harry litman watched it all happen and they join me tonight. and with one candidate in the courtroom and one on the campaign trail, how are the polls this type? jen psaki is here with more on that, when "all in" starts

right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. i think it is fair today was the biggest day of donald trump's criminal trial so far. this morning the star witness for the prosecution took the stand. stormy daniels, also known as stephanie clifford, the woman at the center of this case, took the stand today. daniels is the former adult film actress who prosecute -- who prosecutors say had a sexual encounter with donald trump back in 2006 and was the recipient of a hush money payment in the weeks leading up to the 2016 election to hide that fact from the american public. there is no disputing that the details are salacious. some viewers may find them uncomfortable to hear, but the encounter between donald trump and stormy daniels is of significant relevance as this man once again competes to be the president of the united states.

the question of whether or not donald trump illegally interfered in the 2016 election by engaging in business records fraud, by shielding information from the voters via hush money payments that were concerned -- that were concealed, should be front of mind for voters again. with the ex-president in the room, listening, brow furrowed and that points, according to the judge, cursing audibly about 10 feet away, daniels told the jury about her initial encounter with trump two decades ago. she described meeting that then reality tv hosted a celebrity golf event in lake tahoe where she was 26 years old and he was 60. after initially believing she was going to have a meal with trump, daniels arrived to his penthouse suite to find him wearing silk pajamas rather than dinner attire. she says she made him change his clothes and then they discussed her career. trump discussed his marital problems with his wife melania,

who at the time was at home taking care of their four-month- old son, baron. daniels grew tired of drums questioning and told the jury at this point i had enough of his arrogance and cutting me off and still not getting my dinner, so i said are you always this rude, arrogant, and pompous? daniels testified the two did not eat dinner. instead she went to the bathroom to touch up her makeup and in a moment she described to the jury as a jump square -- jump scare return to find the former president on the bed in his underwear. she said the two had a brief sexual encounter after which trump told her it was great, let's get together again, honeybunch. in response, daniels says she left as quickly as she could. daniels then testified about the hush money payment itself. she said that interest in her story grew dramatically following the release of that access hollywood tape, a

pivotal moment in the story about this, and she wanted her story to be made public at of the 2016 election. ultimately she says she signed a nondisclosure agreement for $130,000 in order to put the entire ordeal behind her. she said it was her understanding that she was supposed to pretend as though they had never met and she said the fear of violating that deal is why she initially signed onto a statement that denied the affair. trump's lawyers, attempting to use her testimony which at times was both granular and freewheeling as a justification for a mistrial. they petitioned for one after she testified. judge juan merchan denied the request and conceded that daniels was a little difficult to control, but concluded, i don't believe we are at the point where a mistrial is warranted. adding that the defense itself did not put up much of a fight. i am also surprised there were not more objections. following cross-examination during which trump's attorney

attempted to discredit daniels and her testimony, court adjourned for the day. we are far from over. she will retake the stand wednesday morning after that break and i imagine there will be a lot more to learn from that. joining me now are two people who watched this happen at the courthouse. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and former attorney general at the department of justice, harry litman. great to have you both here. let's start in the morning, which is that we didn't know stephanie clifford, stormy daniels, was going to take the stand today, right? >> reporter: we did not. i was standing in line when the associated press reported that stormy daniels would be the witness. i have to tell you i was surprised for a couple of reasons. one, i was surprised it hadn't gotten out before, but given where we were in the case, we heard perhaps the driest day of testimony in the trial so far yesterday about the false

documents were allegedly false business records that constitute the heart of the crime that has been charged here. to then go from that and instead of moving forward with other witnesses who would testify about the false business records, to go sort of backward in time, but also upward in interest to stormy daniels, was, i think, a little bit of a surprise, narratively, for me. >> we didn't know in the morning, but before the jury came in the defense raised something about her testimony, so we knew it was going to be she before the jury did. there was definitely something when it happened and you could zone in on the jury and their keen interest. this was a name they been waiting to hear. >> s and the most famous other person involved in this encounter. so you have direct examination. before you get into it, let me hear from each of you -- what

is important if you are setting this up on direct? what you need if you are the prosecution out of this witness? >> reporter: i will tell you what the prosecution said because it is largely what i anticipated, which is that you need stormy daniels in the case to elaborate on what she would have told the public, had she in the october 2016 not signed any agreement, but instead come forward. you need the jury to believe that so they can understand what trump's motivation was for entering into the conspiracy and authorizing michael cohen to enter the hush money settlement. >> you need to see her. >> that is the other thing. >> she is narratively at the heart. the jury is curious. she is the human figure that puts everything in motion. the jury will be dissatisfied if it does not get a glimpse of her and hear her story.

>> now when i saw she was going to be on, one of the challenges for a witness like this, the way that human beings were, when we tell the same story over and over again we don't tell at the same way every time. it is how people are, how memory functions. something that happens in other trials is you do the deposition and then you don't want them talking a lot about it, because they are up there and you can say you said this year and this year. so you have this person. she has talked about this quite a bit. we played her on jimmy kimmel. she wrote a book. so what was your expectation of what sort of witness she would be and how was she? >> reporter: let's start with the premise that the problem you identified is a problem for virtually every witness across this trial and it is something that the prosecutors talked to prospective jurors about. they said people's memories fluctuate. the events at hand happened a

long time ago and you won't blame people if there are minor inconsistencies in their stories, because you will understand that is human nature, right? so they are prepared for that, but what to make stormy daniels even more different is she has a story that is rooted in a sexual trauma. yes she said trump never physically threatened her, but it is clear in her retelling of the story that it is a problematic sexual encounter from her perspective and like many sexual trauma victims, for her the details that are most memorable and vivid are not the ones most important or relevant for a court of law. so confining her story to what the court thinks is important and what the defense will tolerate her testifying to is an added challenge on top of those inconsistencies built from the fact that these events happened. the 2006 sexual encounter between them was 18 years ago. >> that is true as to the sexual act itself, because

merchan was concerned it could be prejudicial to trump. >> so there are some guardrails here to what she can say. >> that's right and she speaks quickly and the d.a. does not control her that much. merchan is peaked and at one point makes his own objection and sustains it when he thinks they've gone too far. that is the core narrative. more broadly she tells a story, a sort of version of an american success story. once hardscrabble, but exotic, for lack of a better word. she humanizes herself to the jury, which they are going to need, because all they know is she is an adult dome actress and she tells something to really try -- >> an actual human being with hopes, dreams, a career, different things she has done. >> precisely and yet does the jury get next to it? because also there is this sensational and kind of exotic aspect to it.

>> that thing is that i think is relevant in terms of motivation. i was following along today and a lot of people noted and i think this comes up on cross, that it has a darker cast. her telling of the story is less kind of like -- and more like this is gross. she's very clear this was not sexual assault. this was consent in the legal sense, but in terms of her objective experience, there was a power position. she felt she kind of got badgered into it. >> reporter: there was an imbalance of power and she testified to looking up at the ceiling at one point and thinking to herself, how did i misread this situation? how did i get to hear? i have to tell you, chris, for me where that called me back to his may, 2023, sitting in a federal courthouse not that far away, thinking about e. jean carroll, who was a victim of

sexual assault. thinking to herself after bantering with trump, thinking she would have a cocktail party story and walking out after the assault, shaken, thinking i screwed up. what did i do to let it go here? >> it was murky and she was kind of disassociated in the key event. >> here was my lightbulb moment today. from afar, putting two and two together, which is to say the access hollywood tape is the biggest crisis the campaign faces. subsequent accusations on the record by actual women who say he sexually assaulted me. this story told and the way she told it today seems like much more of a possible deathblow than the version that i think had been may be communicated before or how i understand it, which is like more buffoonish hijinks and less predatory.

the reason that seemed to matter to me is because of the motive here, which is that this is about the campaign. >> right and to put an even finer point on it, when you are talking literally about the campaign on a day by day basis, stormy daniels signs the first iteration of this nondisclosure agreement on the same day the new york times reports that these other women are coming out of the woodwork to say that they have been sexually assaulted. this is all happening day by day by day, starting with october 7 and the washington post. november 10 is the day the new york times reports these other women and stormy daniels signs for the first time, but she does not sign the real agreement until october 28. meanwhile the trump campaign is fighting valiantly to get out from under the access hollywood tape and the weight of it, including these prominent republicans who don't want to associate with him anymore. had she told this story, this

would've been devastating. what hope hicks call the crisis would have been a catastrophe. >> until then we have had maneuvering, hush money. this was trump the grotesque. trump the foul, kind of monstrous figure that is exactly what they were scared of in october, 2016. >> hence also the move for the mistrial. i want to talk about that and trump's reaction, because there is some wild stuff from the trump you will read in a moment. there is a lot more if you guys will stick around. including the warning from the judge that donald trump could be posting himself right into jail. might be a first in history, but it is possible. next. ible. next. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one

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chef's kiss. since the start of this trial, donald trump has violated his gag order 10 times. on monday trump was find another $1000 for doing it own interview where he said the jury was picked so fast from a pool of 95% democrats. the judge gave him a stern warning, saying it appears the $1000 fines are not serving as a deterrent. obviously, judge. the last thing i want to do is put you in jail. you are the former president of the united states. also true. he warned trump that his continued willful violations of the court orders constitute a

direct attack on the rule of law. i cannot allow that to continue. it appears the judge is right. it does not serve as a deterrent because this morning trump posted this. i have just recently been told who the witnesses today, an apparent reference to stormy daniels. this is unprecedented. no judge has ever run a trial in such a biased and partisan way. the post was quickly deleted. back with me, legal correspondent lisa rubin and harry litman. that post, on the line. not a direct violation, but it is about a witness. i want to read this part. do i have this? oh, here it is, sorry. this is the side bar between merchan and todd blanchet some point that happens. you guys don't hear this, right? okay, we are getting this later. i understand your client is upset, but he is cursing audibly and shaking his head visually and that is

contemptuous. the jury can see that. i will talk to him. i am speaking to you at the bench because i don't want to embarrass him. you need to speak to him. i won't tolerate that. mr. blanche, i will talk to him. that is pretty wild behavior. >> reporter: i have seen this movie before. this is my fourth trump trial. i've seen this at the e. jean carroll trial and civil fraud trial. remember trump did not attend the first trial and i would wager it went better for him for not having been there, not just because he did not testify, but because he does stuff like this. at the second e. jean carroll trial he banged his hands on the table and looked at the jury and set it never happened, audibly. >> to be clear, take a step back, you can't do that. >> the judge called it what it is, contemptuous. it is literally contemptuous. >> reporter: and he has also said that he would not find a

violation of the gag order on his own without a motion. obviously what the client does in court is also not extrajudicial, as he pointed out the other day. i think he is dead serious when he talks to blanche, which is why you see this repeated. i will talk to him. i will talk to him. i don't think we saw any of that for the remainder of the day, but i think trump is dancing on the head of a pin. the da's office also knows that and they know merchan is prepared to send trump to jail for as little or as much time, up to 30 days, as possible. if they come forward with another alleged violation, they know it has to be a serious one that is worthy of the punishment that judge merchan has stated he is willing to impose. >> he deleted it after half an hour. he is nervous. >> we said that. right. so there is something happening here. let me ask the mistrial question and then i want to get

your sense of the day and how she did, because we did not talk about cross yet. quickly on the mistrial motion he says as a threshold matter, i agree, there were things that would have been better left unsaid. i think the witness was a little bit difficult to control, but ultimately i'm not going to give a mistrial. is that about what you would anticipate? >> at most. it really wasn't something that could prejudice the entire proceedings. but he had laid down these guardrails and that was exactly where they kept the questioning, but it was really stormy herself who did go outside the answer quite a bit. i don't think he was flirting with the mistrial, but he wanted to and told the d.a. to take her back and cautioned her. shorten her answers and she did. >> i was thinking of that court. there is a lot of line crossing

and it is like the playoffs of the nba. you sort of push until you get the whistle, right? so i want to get your sense. the crossing, to me, not that effective as i read it, but i was not in the room. did you think it was effective, lisa? >> reporter: i thought there were moments in time where there were inconsistencies and she appeared to tie yourself in knots. all in all the tone the defense took with her, which was competitive -- >> and this was susan necheles who has not dealt with a ton of witnesses in this trial. >> reporter: she hasn't and my suspicion is she was saving herself for the two big ones today and i expect she will be the one to cross-examine michael cohen. susan necheles was incredibly well prepared. she knew the book stormy daniels had written inside and out and yet it did not pay off for her because she was combative with stormy and the

tone was nasty to a point that i think the jury will ultimately find empathy. also, stormy did get much more succinct in her answers and almost was emboldened by getting to answer, reading questions. the fact that she can say false and stop right there. >> right, there were a few weird terry meeuwsen moments. >> textbook mistakes. you want a cross to be quick and have a witness answer every question, yes, correct. when you get to the point where you have implied you are right, that is when you stop and go to the next topic. she was stuck and there were repeated sidebars, also, so her rhythm, rhythm is everything on cross and her rhythm was repeatedly broken. >> it's so funny when you're in that position and they are asking you questions and you say yes, like where is it going. i know you have an idea, right?

what was your evaluation of her overall sort of credibility today in terms of what this witness meant for the case? >> i thought it was strong because substantially, the core of the story was sympathetic and she substantiated everything, but i found myself not certain. i thought there were different members of the jury who reacted to her differently. she was an unusual kind of witness. much more colorful, much more vivid and dramatic, so i thought overall, fine, but i would not be surprised if some among the jury were a little bit nonplussed and i don't know how to go back there. remember, she is a witness. she matters for the feeling of the case, the righteousness of the case. even if she were making it up it would not matter for the charges and yet it would be devastating for the case. we want them to like her and i

think they largely did. i wondered, though, how you felt. i was uncertain. >> reporter: i think stormy daniels, as said in the beginning, is a complicated person and a very conversational person who had her own object is in being a witness. again i go back to the fact that for her this was a traumatic event. she wanted to tell her truth and her lived experience and how it fits into this case. not one and the same. that posed problems for the prosecution in the sense that the lawyer who took the direct examination is extremely experienced. she would not read a witness casually or erroneously and yet i felt she was boxed in. she didn't have any choice but to ask leading questions to prevent stormy daniels from going on and on about things that merchan had already warned were irrelevant or prejudicial

or both. >> really interesting stuff. >> what she said. >> we will come back on thursday and we will see. there will probably be redirect, we imagine. what a day. i cannot thank you both enough. that was fantastic. you guys put an incredible work. i didn't even need to be there. i got what i needed. thank you both. still ahead, donald trump's totally foreseeable problem with women bogs down his campaign. >> would you run for governor or president, did you ever think about that? >> people want me to all the time. can you imagine how controversial i would be? think about him with the women, but what about me with the women? >> it would be close, but no cigar. >> jen psaki joins me on how stormy daniels' testimony will play with voters, next. we came to his house... then we got to work. we replaced his windshield...

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today's testimony from adult film actress stormy daniels in the trial of donald trump, as i said it was salacious, it was embarrassing and frankly, cringe inducing. almost couldn't physically read the transcript. daniels testified about her 2006 sexual encounter with trump in great detail from the silk or satin pajamas that he wore that she compared to the playboy founder, to the pet name he used for her, honeybunch. underneath all of that is the description of a man who does

not take no for an answer from women. a man who wields his power over women's bodies. stormy daniels has been clear all along that the encounter was not forced, but it was unwanted. today she testified that she felt there was an imbalance of power, for sure. he was bigger and blocking the way, but i was not threatened verbally or physically. she also testified that at one point she thinks she blacked out. she also mentioned an incident the night after her encounter with trump when he introduced her to ben roethlisberger and asked him to walk daniels back to her room. in her book, daniels wrote that roethlisberger requested, quote, a good night kiss which she denied and then he lightly pushed her hotel room door. she says she was terrified by the situation. roethlisberger later settled a civil suit stemming from the allegation he raped a woman in his hotel room in 2008 at the

same golf tournament where daniels alleged the affair with trump took place. it is key to remember the reason that it was so important to donald trump to keep stormy daniels' story out of the press. when paying $130,000 for her silence, the access hollywood tape had just come out with the final weeks in the campaign and trump was revealed to have been bragging about committing sexual assault on tape. in the immediate aftermath more than a dozen women came forward on the record, named, accusing him of sexual misconduct. eventually trump was found liable for sexually abusing a woman, e. jean carroll, who says that he raped her in the dressing room of a department store in the 1990s. one of the defining stories of the trump era is about male power over women's bodies. we've seen that play out from the campaign to the women's march in the me to era to the

supreme court nominees overturning roe v. wade. donald trump wields the ultimate sledgehammer of the american patriarchy. that is part of what was on display in the courtroom today. bounce, it's the sheet. i bought the team! kevin...? i bought the team! i put it on my chase freedom unlimited card. and i'm gonna' cashback on a few other things too... starting with the sound system! curry from deep. that's caaaaaaaaash. i prefer the old intro! this is much better! i don't think so! steph, one more thing... the team owner gets five minutes a game. cash bros? woo! i like it. i'll break it to klay. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase, make more of what's yours. what if we don't get down in time to get a birthday howgift for zoe?ack? don't panic. with etsy we can find the perfect gift, and send her a preview right away.

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- so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right?

when migraine strikes, you're faced with a choice. accept the trade offs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose quickly stops migraine in its tracks. treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with you. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. with six months until the general election, the president of the united states spent his day at the capital denouncing anti-semitism at a holocaust remembrance event. while the republican nominee,

donald trump, spent his day in court charged with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. before that trial began last month, 58% of registered voters view the charges that he falsified business records to cover up hush money payments to stormy daniels as serious or very serious. interestingly, women were twice as likely as men to say they felt the charges were very serious, while men were twice as likely as women to see the charges as not serious at all, 30% of 15%. joining me now is msnbc's jen psaki, who has a brand-new book out today called seymore. congratulations on your first book. >> thank you. nice to be here. >> so that polling that i saw today, it had been around for a little bit. do you think it is that significant, the gender divide on this? >> maybe, because i think as you were just saying in the

last segment, it is not just this, right? for women across the country you have a man running for president who doesn't believe you should have control over your own body. literally as it relates to abortion rights and abortion access and the more he talks about it, the more that is clear. you also heard a story today and i heard the last segment on the lawyers where there is a legal component on this. you had a woman who said that she blacked out while she was having sex with him. that is not respecting your body, either. i think a lot of women out there, it is too much. it is a bridge too far and i think you are seeing that. now, do i know that is going to be the deciding factor? i don't, but when people say none of this matters i think they are undervaluing the disgusting behavior. >> that is well said because i do think what ends up happening and partly the way that we conduct discourse is that the polls are this is it, he is cooked, or nothing matters.

the answer is that everything matters a little bit in the margins. >> yes. >> one thing that stands out to me about revisiting 2017 and that period is the real sense of profound shock and recoil from so many people. everyone was so grossed out and disgusted by what he said on the tape. then women come forward like he groped me on an airplane. trump denies that. he denies all these charges. that it brought me back to a place where the country as a whole, maybe i had this quaint notion, that there were things that you could do that could sink your campaign. this is a cliche in politics. people have examples. this is the thing where it is like, you are done, you're out. we don't have that anymore. >> well, we haven't. he is teflon don. i remember talking about this during the break. that day, october 7, 2016, was also the day where the u.s. government finally put out a

statement saying russia had intervened in the election. i remember being in the white house at the time, thinking, this took a while, but this tape is so crazy it's going to tank his campaign and we don't have to worry about it. that did not happen. >> that was the response of a lot of people. republicans. >> republicans, we are not going to have to worry about this guy much longer. i think what happened contributed to a form of ptsd where everyone says none of this is going to matter, no one is going to care. it is all baked in. people say it is all baked in. i'm sorry, when you hear that a woman blacked out while she was having sex with someone and it was so traumatizing for her, her hands were shaking. you combine that with the fact that the same person does not think women should make choices about their own body, that may matter. we have to see. it is six months out, so the prediction game can be dangerous. we are projecting and we don't know what the public is going to decide or not.

>> right and the other thing i think about is how much events are around the corner in terms of time. i talk about this all the time, but after his impeachment, you know, people were talking about him getting out of his first impeachment and he will bounce back or whatever. covid, we didn't know. so, projecting forward. but i do think the stability of the polling, combined with the lurid nests of him and everything around him is hard for people to square. it is like a daily challenge for me to square. >> it is hard for me, too. it is hard to understand and digest as a human. it is a divided country, there is disinformation and an overwhelming number of republicans still think he won the 2020 election. there are many factors. to your point there are things that are going to happen. there are things that might turn a curve for people that we don't know yet. covid had not happened, the financial crisis had not

happened. ruth bader ginsburg was still alive. george floyd. we have a long time to go. >> this is your first book. i have not read it yet. it is sitting at my desk. you are an extremely talented communicator. >> thank you, so are you. >> i don't know how natural that is. i've gotten there with a lot of work. what is the book about? >> the book is a book i wish i had in my 20s. it is lessons i've learned over the past 20 years about how to communicate. some of it is how to talk publicly. everyone doesn't do what we do or what i did at my last job. >> talking as an art form. >> exactly, but it is also about talking to different kinds of bosses. people don't like yes men and women. i talk about that. what i have learned. making mistakes. what you do with bullies. i talk a lot about the kremlin in there, because they are my biggest bully. i do talk about that. it is really lessons over the

course of time and communicating from my life, from my time in government. from being a parent, you know how that is. it is humbling. >> that is some of the most difficult communicating a person does. jen psaki, the book is called say more and it is out today. >> thank you, chris. still to come, as the united nations says there is full-blown famine in gaza right now, israeli forces cut off aid. the latest on the worsening situation, next. ion, next. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it's the martha stewart of soil. mom genes. she passed them down to you. but who passed them to her? ancestrydna can show her who and where her genes came from. best of all, it's on sale for mother's day. get it now, before she has to remind you.

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there is a group on the supreme court who believe their duty is to protect the president. >> it seems america has not fallen apart, so it can be done.

it has been an extremely confusing and eventful last 72 hours in israel's on whirring ongoing war in gaza. news, coming in waves. over the weekend it looked like there was a deal on the table for a cease-fire. negotiators including william burns, cia director, gathered in egypt in hope of putting the final touches on a sought after agreement that would end israeli military operations in gaza, or at least suspend them for a period of time, and phased swaps, the return of dozens of israeli hostages who remain in gaza and in hamas' hands in exchange for palestinian political detainees. on monday hamas announced it would accept a cease-fire framework that came out, the publicly said this before when in egypt, in catarrh, leading to celebration amongst

palestinians. they said it was not what they agreed to and then unanimous approval to launch an incursion into rafah. it is the site of a critical check point for food and aid to millions of palestinians, who have fled to safe zones there. must've the country north has been evacuated. forces have called airstrikes on rafah, which you see there. tuesday , today, the border crossing, the most significant, shut down, ringing delivery aid to a standstill. prime minister netanyahu has promised ground invasion into rafah for eradicating hamas, that it would happen with or without a cease-fire document which is confusing, and that's over the objections of president biden who has four months, through all channels of the american government, warmed warned if an offensive proceeds

the most of gaza is simply uninhabitable. there is nowhere for them to go. palestinians in rafah have been urged to evacuate to other parts of rafah. as nbc news has found in investigations including one last week found dozens of palestinians were killed in seven airstrikes mother israel military had designated those areas as safe zones. joining me now from cairo, tracking the cease-fire talks, it's great to have you. i am so confused, and there is so much. it's very difficult to know. this is not a transparent process, negotiations are going to be clouded in secrecy. what the status of these talks in cairo for some sort of deal

to pause or end hostilities, what is the current status? >> reporter: look, i don't know [ laughter ] is the honest answer. what i can tell you is we looked at the proposal hamas agrees to, has agreed to. as you mentioned it's a phased exchange and swap of hostages and prisoners, and also demands on the hamas side for withdrawal of israeli forces for the return of the displaced homes, in gaza, and for an end to the siege. this is the confusing part, as you mentioned. over the weekend, over the last several days, there was some excitement, and some enthusiasm, and bill burns has really been making the rounds, going to qatar, talking in cairo, and there are reports he's going back to speak with prime minister netanyahu, and we were close over the last 48 hours, we believed a cease-fire

would happen when hamas signed onto the proposal. but then shortly afterward, the israeli war cabinet said hang on, this proposal was softened without our knowledge, and as a result we are not accepting this proposal that hamas has agreed to abide by, and this is where we are right now. we understand some of the sticking points, chris, are that the-- first set of released hostages could include deceased hostages. that is something israel would not accept, but, the bigger picture is, what hamas wants is a complete withdrawal of israeli forces and an end to the war. >> right. >> we know the israeli government and prime minister has said repeatedly that's not on the cards. so, there are still many sticking points, but we will see if bill burns can pull it off. >> so, i saw some of that

reporting also, about the hostages-- an enormous difference to those who are alive versus those who have tragically passed-- there are two things i've been confused by. one of the things is the line from netanyahu, and sometimes " senior administration officials" obviously that is the whole point of contention, if you are saying we will go to rafah either way there's no possibility of a deal, that seems to be happening now. >> reporter: right. and that is why, in terms of road leaders, palestinians, they are saying hang on, we thought we had the framework for a deal, but then we hear from benjamin netanyahu, that regardless we are going into rafah, which would kill any deal. as you mentioned it's something that-- didn't make

sense on the face of it. but, it led to accusations perhaps the prime minister was trying to find a way to sabotage the deal. this is the accusation from arab capitals, hamas, and that's weird, that's the explanation that is coming from this part of the world, where i am, in egypt. you mentioned israeli tanks entered rafah. they also entered a section , there is a philadelphia corridor since 2005, this is a corridor, an agreement with egypt that israeli forces would not enter that corridor, and, this is something causing a lot of stir in terms of reaction coming from egypt and other arab capitals. the question, how much pressure is on netanyahu from his own people, not just the u.s., to come up with a deal allowing for the release of these hostages, because internally, there's a lot of discontent right now.

>> yes, and there have been families protesting, they wrote an open letter that i read today of course. enormous consequences for the civilians in rafah. the israelis are directing them one place and rafah to the other, but it's going to be very bad if there is a full invasion, it's unclear what will happen next. thank you so much for making time at this ungodly hour. really appreciate it. all right, that is all in on this tuesday night. next up is "alex wagner tonight." tonight, i'm going to get right to it, because we have a special lineup. like i said, tonight is a special night, we have so much news about donald trump and his legal troubles that i will be joined by my colleagues, rachel maddow, and lawrence o'donnell, to break this down. first off we have got huge news from the mar-a-lagoif